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Ron Conte
13th April 2007, 04:05 PM
I'm starting a new thread mainly becase the one main thread about the secrets articles has become so long.

Concerning the fact that I place the Miracle more than a year after the Warning (in contradiction to what one of the visionaries has said):

It is not so unusual, within true private revelations from God, or from Mary, to find some minor errors. These errors cannot be the result of God or anyone in Heaven making a mistake; God is infallible and all the Blessed in Heaven are also free from error due to their Beatific Vision of God. But the one receiving the private revelation can misunderstand, and anyone who is writing down or repeating the private revelation is also subject to possible error. Thus the Church considers even true private revelations to be fallible.

The visionary of Garabandal named Mari-Loli has said that the Miracle will happen within one year after The Warning; this has been widely interpreted to mean within 12 calendar months. But to my knowledge, Mari-Loli has never quoted the Virgin Mary word for word on that point; in fact, she has said that she can't quite remember when Mary spoke about this to her. Mary may have said that the Miracle occurs about a year after the Warning, or in the next calendar year, or some other similar wording. We don't have the exact quote; Mari-Loli apparently cannot remember the exact words.

Furthermore, Mari-Loli admits that she does not know the date of the Warning, only its calendar year. She admits that she does not know how much time will elapse between the two events. She says that she does not know if the Miracle occurs in the same calendar year as the Warning, or not. Therefore, she does not know the date of the Miracle. She has never said that the Virgin Mary specifically said “within 12 months,” and she does not seem to remember the exact wording of what was said on this point. Therefore, it is clear that Mari-Loli does not know that the Miracle will occur within 12 calendar months from the Warning.

Also, notice that the dates for the Warning and the Miracle are separated by 12 months. The Warning occurs in a particular month, then there are 12 consecutive months that do not contain the Warning or the Miracle, and then there is the month which does contain the Miracle. Mari-Loli could easily have misunderstood being told that these two events are separated by 12 months, as if they would occur within 12 months. Or perhaps she was told that the Miracle will occur the following calendar year, and she misunderstood this as if it was within a year.

Now let's look at the dates and times of the Warning and the Miracle. These two events occur exactly one year and 33 days apart. The number 33 refers to the number of years in Christ's life at His Crucifixion. Since the Warning is the first secret of Medjugorje, it will be announced by the priest chosen to announce it, Fr. Petar, three days beforehand, on April 7th. The actual date of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ in the first century A.D. was April 7th. In the liturgical calendar, the Warning (the Day of Repentance; the first secret) occurs on Good Friday, April 10th, when we remember the Crucifixion. The subsequent Day of Consolation (the second secret) occurs on Easter Sunday, April 12th. And the Miracle (the third secret) occurs on Ascension Thursday of the next calendar year, on May 13th. So the dates for these three events (the first three secrets), which include the Warning and the Miracle, fit perfectly with the liturgical calendar. This makes sense because God, in performing these miraculous and unprecedented worldwide acts, wants everyone to know that the Catholic Faith is above all other religions. So he conforms these events to the liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church.

Interestingly, the dates for Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the Orthodox liturgical calendar do not coincide with Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the Catholic liturgical calendar in the year 2009, when the Warning (first secret) and the second secret occur. But the date of the Miracle (third secret) in the next year, 2010, is Ascension Thursday in both the Catholic and Orthodox calendars.

Ron Conte
13th April 2007, 04:12 PM
Also, I've learned when studying theology, that the teachings of the Saints and Doctors of the Church about any theological point are often not in agreement and cannot be reconciled. Some holy persons sometimes said or taught particular points which were in error. In studying theology, one must learn to set aside certain assertion of even Saints and Doctors, because they are not infallible; if one does not learn to look for and screen out various possible errors, then one will not be able to make sense of the teachings of Saints and Doctors.

The same process occurs in Biblical chronology. In trying to determine the dates of events in NT times, one must compare various sources of information and learn not to accept every assertion. Instead, one must judge that certain assertions are erroneous and should be set aside. One cannot reconcile every statement by every sources about when events occured in NT times.

The same approach must be used in eschatology. Even when reading only the writings of Saints and Blesseds about the future, not every statement by every Saint is in agreement. There are obviously some errors about the future made by Saints. So, to determine what to believe about the future, one must evaluate various assertions and screen out those that do not fit with more weighty sources (such as Scripture).

The same approach applies to private revelation. The visionaries are fallible. They could easily have misunderstood particular points. One such point is the claim that the Miracle will occur less than a year after the Warning. Based on my interpretation of Scripture, I've determined that the Miracle occurs more than a year after the Warning.


Ron

needDivineMercy
13th April 2007, 04:35 PM
Ron,

Do you have any sense of the time of day that the Warning may happen? (i.e. 3PM in Jerusalem)
Also, do you think that non-electronic cameras work for the event in the sky?

Thank you and God bless!

Ron Conte
13th April 2007, 06:46 PM
Ron,

Do you have any sense of the time of day that the Warning may happen? (i.e. 3PM in Jerusalem)
Also, do you think that non-electronic cameras work for the event in the sky?

Thank you and God bless!

I don't know the answer to either question.

Ron

Hope
14th April 2007, 04:32 AM
I've learned a lot about apparitions and the tribulation since joining CP. I might be delusional, but the more I consider these things, the more I believe that I got a preview of the Warning in my dream about the crumbling church. If I'm not crazy, having experienced what I experienced, I think that Ron's description of what the Warning will be and what it will not be is very accurate.

In part of the dream I stood alone before God. I didn't see Him, but it was as if I left this world and was standing in a gray and foggy place somewhere between heaven and hell. I was aware of God in a way that made me feel totally vulnerable and exposed, like I imagine Adam and Eve felt when they tried to hide their nakedness from God.

I wasn't meeting a God with arms wide open. Instead, I was like a convict going before a Judge. Yet, the Judge did not have utter a word or declare a verdict. I knew my guilt and I knew that the Judge knew my guilt too, so there was no verbal exchange. My life did not flash before my eyes. Most sins were not singled out, but instead I saw the cumulative effect of all my sins, aquired throughout my lifetime. They were visible as a darkness in my soul--like soot on intricate glass--Hard to describe.

Although it is impossible to see myself as God sees me, I understood that the way I saw myself was not how God saw me. I got a better idea of His persective and I had no beauty left in me. This seems obvious, but the reality of experiencing this is worse than it sounds. Especially, because there was a moment where I believed I was undergoing a judgement that would result in an everlasting sentence. If the Warning is anything like this, I tell you, there may not exist a more horrendous prospect of the finality of a future separated from that which you are made. If that makes sense at all. Let me try again . . . there really are no words to adequately describe the terror involved in thinking that life is over, there is nothing more to do, there is no chance at reconciliation, and Hell is set in stone. It is the death of all Hope. The end of Joy . . .

The God I had created in my mind (even though I was an athiest, go figure) was not be the same God I was experiencing. The truth of who I was . . . was undeniable and undefendable. Just when I thought Hell was a certainty, I was given a second chance. Maybe the Warning will be a second chance--a chance at reconciliation, a Great Mercy. It seems unbelievable that everyone will not take advantage of this. But trust me when I say this was not be a joyous moment, but a terrible revelation.

There were a lot of false notions to sift through--shattered ideas about God and my own pride and undeserved sense of worthiness. My world was rocked. I saw Jesus in all His glory, huge and full of power, in the sky. Light was bursting forth from the wounds in his hands and feet and chest. At the time of the dream, I knew that Jesus was actually spiked through the wrists and not the hands, and this (among another thing that may have been cleared up) caused me to question the origin of what I saw, but still, the appearance of Jesus as the mighty God was totally awesome.

Anyway, it took me years (less time than most will have after the warning) to seek His mercy. If my dream counts as anything, I think that many will acknowledge their wretchedness and return to Him, but many won't. And many will wait too long.

Dejavu anyone? No, you're not losing your mind. I posted this earlier today and then deleted it. I had second thoughts about touting my opinion based on a dream, which I shared a while back, but now I've reposted it again. Sorry if I made you read this twice :rolleyes: . But again, I really think that Ron nailed his description of The Warning. Since I feel he was so accurate here, although I am leary of precise dates, I am confidant that he is accurate in many of his other predictions too.

Hope
14th April 2007, 05:27 AM
I've been thinking about the sight in the sky that people are supposed to see all over the world. I think that Ron speculates in his articles that everyone might see an angel, but is it possible that it we might see an apparition of Jesus in the sky instead? Maybe Jesus will make a quick appearance on the scene for all to see and then go back from whence He came.

In light of the Second Coming, this sounds unbiblical, doesn't it?

What exactly does the bible say about the Second Coming? Is the term "Second Coming" straight from the bible, or is it something that came later? I guess what I'm getting at, did Jesus say that He would not return again until the end of the world? Or did He say that He would come at the end of the world, which leaves open the possibilities of additional appearances before the end?

I guess this is one thing that has made me doubt the validity of my dream over the years. Maybe this part of the dream was symbolic. But, then again, maybe Jesus will appear as a visible apparition to all the world like He did in my dream?

I'm not totally buying into my own theory about this, so feel free to rip it apart. I will try not to be offended when you do :( .

Paul Bellett
14th April 2007, 06:54 AM
It is interesting to note that Ron has stated that these Garabandal/Medjugorje events conform to the liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church.
As for the Miracle happening in May it appears to conform to the Sanctoral Cycle of the Church - More details regarding this are at http://www.fisheaters.com/sanctoral.html
Notice that the month of May is exclusively 'Dedicated to the Blessed Virgin'.
We all know that the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared at Garabandal under title of "Our Lady of Carmel".
In F. SANCHEZ-VENTURA Y PASCUAL 's book (http://www.garabandal.org/BrownBook/BrownBookP088.htm) 'The apparitions of GARABANDAL' ,
On orders from the parish priest, the little girls asked the Vision why she sometimes appeared under different titles. The reply came back: "I am Mary, the Blessed Virgin, and there is but one Blessed Virgin."
With regards to the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima (http://www.ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/October.htm), this also seems to fit the Santoral cycle of the church for October, as she then said "I am the Lady of the Rosary"

Rgds Paul

Paul Bellett
14th April 2007, 07:25 AM
Just a further note to my previous post, for the month of April regarding the occurrance of "The Warning", this Sanctoral month is 'Dedicated to the Blessed Sacrament', so you couldn't get a better fit for the holy week of Easter.

Rgds Paul

Ron Conte
14th April 2007, 11:37 AM
Hope,

I think that your dream was about the Warning.
Your statement that we will not see ourselves as God sees us is correct.
Many of the false private revelations claim that we will see ourselves as God sees us; they are wrong.

My opinion on the site of the nailmarks is that it was in the anatomical wrist, which is in the heel of the hand.

No, I don't think that Jesus will appear in the sky. Conchita said the event or sign in the sky begins with the letter 'A'. Also, the Warning is not specific to Christianity; it is given to everyone; it does not inform everyone that Christianity is the Way.

The Warning is not the return of Jesus in any sense. However, it is the beginning of a long period of time which prepares for His eventual return.

Hope, you saw Jesus in your dream, but that was specific to you. Persons who have culpably rejected Christianity will know at the Warning their sin. But the Warning is unique to each person; not everyone will have the same experience.

Ron Conte
14th April 2007, 11:48 AM
One of the member pointed out to me that:

April 10th (the Warning) is the 100th day of the year

May 13th (the Miracle) is the 133rd day of the year


Ron

St. Thomas More
14th April 2007, 02:13 PM
One of the member pointed out to me that:

April 10th (the Warning) is the 100th day of the year

May 13th (the Miracle) is the 133rd day of the year


Ron

To expound upon this, we have 10/100 (since April 10th is the 100th day of the year) and 13/133, since May 13 is the 133rd day of the year.

Perhaps the "0" represents the infinity of the God and the Holy Trinity, "1" represents one God, and "3" represents the Holy Trinity.

St. Thomas More
-- "The King's Good Servant, but God's First."

Hope
14th April 2007, 02:20 PM
A little aside . . . I don't know if I'd reject an apparition based on one statement where someone said that we'll see ourselves as God sees us. I say this knowing that I've carelessly described it this way more than once. I was trying to convey that I saw my sins more clearly and became more aware of their effect. It was an attempt to show that I saw myself in a brighter light, with a more truthful perspective, which would be closer to how God sees me. But, of course, I will never be able to see anything the way God sees it. I wonder if for lack of imagination, others have made the same sloppy analogy.

"A" is for angel. Seems possible enough. Secrets schmecrets--why does God have to be so cryptic? Maybe to appeal to people who like to do a bit of sleuthing? I think it'd be helpful if God spelled out the whole thing, but He doesn't consult me (don't think I'm being literal here, that's a joke).

For years I hardly ever thought about that dream, but lately I've been obsessing about it. Gotta stop! Thank you for sharing your insights with me, Ron.

Hope
14th April 2007, 02:40 PM
Plans for a New Jewish Temple In the Works

http://catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=893

When I first saw this, I instantly thought of your predictions about Pope Benedict proposing that a Church, Mosque and Temple be built on the holy sight. I was expecting comments about it here, but no one made any.

You mentioned this prediction far in advance of new articles about the secrets, where you explain how the Transfiguration and the first pope's suggestion to make three tents for the prophets, foreshadows what Benedict will suggest. It seems like this prediction is already beginning to unfold.

I'm just mentioning it here because I think it is a pivotal prediction and it's worthy of extra attention. If Benedict proposes these three buildings, it should be soon, and those who are not taking your articles seriously, should reconsider.

If this should be somewhere other than under the Warning and Miracle, feel free to move it.

Ron Conte
14th April 2007, 03:07 PM
Pope Benedict will propose that the three religions:
Judaism, Christianity, Islam
worship together in peace in the city of peace, Jerusalem,
sharing the city,
and establishing three important places of worship,
one for each of these three religions
in that city.

He proposes this in response to the Warning.
I'm not certain how soon after the Warning.

But it does not happen for many years.
Israel will destroy the Dome of the Rock Mosque and
then build the Third Temple of Jerusalem.
Sometime later, the Catholic Church builds a center of
worship in Jerusalem (perhaps after Vatican City is destroyed).
Lastly the muslims build a new Mosque in Jerusalem.
Then, after the three days of darkness, these three religions
will be the only religions on earth of any size or consequence.
And people will go up to Jerusalem each year to worship
according to their faiths (analogous to the Feast of booths).


Ron

Rob
14th April 2007, 06:26 PM
One of the member pointed out to me that:

April 10th (the Warning) is the 100th day of the year

May 13th (the Miracle) is the 133rd day of the year


Ron

Don't forget that Imelda died on the year 1333 so there is an even more interesting numerical pattern.

May 13, 133rd day of the year, year 1333 (year of the saint's death)

Ron Conte
14th April 2007, 08:16 PM
And the Miracle occurs 1 year and 33 days after the Warning.


Ron

Paul Bellett
14th April 2007, 09:06 PM
Talking about numbers,
I personally feel that "The Warning or Day of Repentance" will occur at 3:00PM Jerusalem time on Good Friday, corresponding to the hour of Christ's Sorrowful Passion.
Therefore it will be :-
12:00 PM in New Zealand (where I was born)
10:00 PM in Melbourne, Australia (where I work and live)
1:00 PM in London, UK (British Daylight Saving Time)
8:00 AM in New York (Eastern Daylight Saving Time)
2:00 AM in Honolulu USA

At least this is some kind of warning to those in the world who are asleep at this time!

Rgds Paul

MARIAN
15th April 2007, 05:52 AM
To follow on from Hopes point on the rebuilding of the 3rd temple. Surely the destruction of the Dome on the Rock will cause the 3rd world war.
Mary

Ron Conte
15th April 2007, 11:56 AM
To follow on from Hopes point on the rebuilding of the 3rd temple. Surely the destruction of the Dome on the Rock will cause the 3rd world war.
Mary

I think that the extremists who engage in the war are motivated mainly by fear and desperation in reaction to the Warning and the Miracle. But the destruction of that Mosque must be a factor.

St. Thomas More
16th April 2007, 03:01 AM
To continue the discussion of numbers and dates, it turns out that on May 13 (Miracle date) in the year 1917 Pope Benedict XV consecrated Eugenio Pacelli as an Archbishop. Pacelli later became Pope Pius XII. This was also the same date that Our Lady appeared to the three shepherd children at Fatima. So, there was a coincidental event between Our Lady's first appearance at Fatima and the consecration of a person who would be a future pope.

Perhaps this is a foreshadowing of the Great Miracle on May 13, 2010, which possibly coincides w/the canonization of Pope John Paul II.

Also, May 13 is the date that Pope Pius IX was born.

St. Thomas More
--- "The King's Good Servant, but God's First"

garabandalg
24th April 2007, 05:13 AM
If you will recall the miracle of the Visible Host happened a few hours beyond what was originally predicted, and so did Conchita's final message. Our Lord often forces us to wait a bit to see if our faith fails. IT is one thing to believe and yet another to believe so fervently that one continues to believe when so-called predicted deadlines or timelines fail. This is why I completely believe that the Miracle will surely occur just beyond that famous "one year" prediction.

Paul Bellett
26th April 2007, 10:57 AM
[QUOTE=Also, May 13 is the date that Pope Pius IX was born.
St. Thomas More
--- "The King's Good Servant, but God's First"[/QUOTE].

I liked what Catholicplanet member Thomas said, about about an Archbishop being consecrated on May 13, 1917 who would later become a Pope, and of Pope Pius IX being born on May 13, as he certainly had a number of prophetic visions, and the most famous one regarding what he said about the Great Miracle is :-

"Since the whole world is against God and His Church, it is evident that He has reserved the victory over His enemies to Himself. This will be more obvious when it is considered that the root of all our present evils is to be found in the fact that those with talents and vigour crave earthly pleasures, and not only desert God but repudiate Him altogether.

Thus it appears they cannot be brought back in any other way except through an act that cannot be ascribed to any secondary agency, and thus all will be forced to look to the supernatural...

There will come a GREAT WONDER, which will fill the world with astonishment. This wonder will be preceded by the triumph of Revolution. The church will suffer exceedingly. Her servants and her chieftain will be mocked, scourged, and martyred. …."

Pope Pius IX - [1878]
[Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy, Tan Books and Publishers, 1973]

Rgds

Paul

DiAZ216
27th April 2007, 06:41 PM
Ron,

Do you think when the Illumination occurs, that young people who are interested in new age and Harry Potter and other such things will realize their folly?

Ron Conte
27th April 2007, 07:58 PM
I don't know.

I think that individual responses will vary greatly.

JuanLuis
5th May 2007, 06:19 PM
This was heard by a witness of name Antonia:
Yo (Antonia), le oí a Conchita en éxtasis:

-- Cuando dejen de subir todos, cuando no lo crea nadie, ¿entonces harás el Milagro?... entonces vendrá el Milagro... cuando todo el mundo deje de creer; ni los sacerdotes lo creerán, ni nadie lo creerá,... ¿entonces vendrá el Milagro?.

Esto lo he oído yo: nosotras mismas nos hemos de contradecir, las familias, etc. Eso lo he oído yo en casa de Conchita, eso es cierto.

Una noche, en casa de Ceferino, oí que hablaban con el Padre Andréu. Yo estaba allí y esa noche decían:

-- ¿Se unirán las iglesias?, ... las iglesias se unirán.

Decían que se llegarían a unir las iglesias. Eso decían, estando ellas en éxtasis; y que si no nos enmendamos, eso también lo oí, se apoderaría Rusia de todo. Las niñas dijeron eso, en éxtasis, eso lo oí yo (Antonia): que vendrían unos castigos muy grandes.

Antonia (witness) heard Conchita said that the many Churchs would unify- she said this when she was in extasis.:p

vendrían unos castigos muy grandes.

Paul Bellett
6th May 2007, 11:15 AM
Had a discussion with my parents a few days ago regarding the Miracle & Warning dates, but they were not entirely convinced that these actual dates could be predicted.
They then started quoting scripture back at me, with what Jesus said about "no one knows the time nor the hour when...." etc...
I told them that Jesus was talking about the time of his Second Coming, and not
regarding these future events.
They then tried to bring up that Mayan False Prophecy about the world ending in December 21st 2012, when the solar system passes through the centre or equatorial line of the Milky Way.
Only the astrononomical side of it can be verified, since it is based on scientific mathematical calculations, determining where the Sun is orbiting in relation to the rest of the galaxy, so that really isn't going to make any impact on God's plan of salvation for mankind.

So going back to the Warning and Miracle dates, I said to myself, I wonder if these events, if by any chance have any Night Sky astronomical significance.
This is what I came up with:-
April 9, 2009 (Holy Thursday) 1st Full Moon begins.
There are 13 Full Moons between April 9 2009 to May 13 2010 (Ascension Thursday).
On May 13, 2010, the moon is at the end of its phase or cycle ( in other words, nobody should be able to see the natural moon on May 13th - however having some faith in the supernatural - if the moon perhaps appears at 8:30 PM for 15 minutes in the night sky at Garabandal, it certainly would be quite a spectacular miracle! You just never know sometimes.
A New Moon begins on May 14, 2010.
Reference : http://www.tutiempo.net/en/moon/phases_5_2010.htm

Paul

Ron Conte
6th May 2007, 12:16 PM
I don't see any relevance to the moon or astronomy here.

The Mayan calendar ends on that date in 2012, but I don't
know of any Mayan belief that the world will end; it is merely
the end of an ancient calendar system from an ancient society.
I think people are reading things into the Mayan calendar that
the Mayans did not intend.

Ron

Rob
6th May 2007, 12:42 PM
Yes, I agree. There is nothing significant about astronomy at Garabandal on may 13 2010 at 20:30. Have a look at the sky to the west on that exact time at Garabandal. The sun is not set yet and the moon is near the sun, invisible and slowly setting behind the horizon. Venus, which is usually bright is to the left of the sun about 40 degrees high. Looks like a normal day, really.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w74/Robi197/Garabandal.jpg


Sky Charts - version 2.76

Michael
7th May 2007, 01:51 PM
Hi Ron,

I’ve read your papers on the secrets of Garabandal and Medjagorie and have 2 questions:

1. In the paper “Mistaken Ideas about the Secrets” you write

“It is the future time, the time of the second part of the tribulation (in the 25th century), which contains the Antichrist's reign, the Return of Jesus Christ, and the end of the reign of sin on earth (but not the end of the world).”

Are you saying that the world will continue to exist after the second coming of Jesus? My understanding has always been that the Second Coming will be the Day of the Last Judgement and the Resurrection of the Dead and that all will be judged to receive eternal life or be condemned to Hell. And that the world (and purgatory) would be longer exist.

2. In a few places (i.e. the 3rd secret – World War 3 starting in 2010, the Second Coming in 2437) you match the timing of events to chapters and verses from scripture. Do you of any cases where this type of application of scripture has been borne out in the past? For example; Are there any Old Testament scripture chapters/verses that have predicted future events for the Chosen People, or the coming of the Messiah?

Thanks, Mike

Ron Conte
7th May 2007, 02:06 PM
Are you saying that the world will continue to exist after the second coming of Jesus? My understanding has always been that the Second Coming will be the Day of the Last Judgement and the Resurrection of the Dead and that all will be judged to receive eternal life or be condemned to Hell. And that the world (and purgatory) would be longer exist.

order of events:
first part of the tribulation
great monarch's reign (2040 and following)
long slide into greater and greater sinfulness
the reign of the ten kings (2300's)
the reign of the Antichrist (2430/2431 to 2437)
Return of Jesus (2437)
Jesus punishes the unrepentant wicked and establishes his kingdom on earth
First Resurrection (of the Saints and marytrs)
Second Ascension of Jesus to Heaven
Second Pentecost

the Millennium of peace and holiness lasting about 1200 years

a brief time of rebellion

the Return of Jesus for Judgement and the general Resurrection
God takes away Heaven and earth and makes a new Heaven
and a new earth, which continue forever. Purgatory and death
are no more.


2. In a few places (i.e. the 3rd secret – World War 3 starting in 2010, the Second Coming in 2437) you match the timing of events to chapters and verses from scripture. Do you of any cases where this type of application of scripture has been borne out in the past? For example; Are there any Old Testament scripture chapters/verses that have predicted future events for the Chosen People, or the coming of the Messiah?

The Bible did not have chapter or verse numberings before about 1500 A.D.
So the OT prophecies cannot have predicted the date of the birth of Jesus
by means of chapter and verse numberings.


Ron

Michael
7th May 2007, 03:53 PM
Hi Ron,

"the Millennium of peace and holiness lasting about 1200 years"

Isn't the belief in this 'millenarianism'?

From the Catechism: "The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological [final] judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism" (676).

And from catholicculture.org ...

"And in the fine catechism The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults (Bishop Donald W. Wuerl, R. Lawler, OFM Cap., and Thomas Lawler, eds.. Our Sunday Visitor [1991]), we read, "Some people have mistakenly come to expect a Messianic kingdom in which Christ together with the saints would rule a temporal kingdom on earth for a thousand years (hence the term 'millenarianism') before the final entrance into heaven. But such millenarianism is alien to the message of faith. The Church's teaching associates Christ's second coming proximately with the resurrection of the dead, with final judgment, and with the glory of His eternal kingdom" (469)."

Rob
7th May 2007, 03:59 PM
This should clarify the distinction between millenialism and millenarianism:

http://catholicplanet.com/future/millennialism-defined.htm

Climacus Areopagite
7th May 2007, 06:23 PM
I don't see any relevance to the moon or astronomy here.

The Mayan calendar ends on that date in 2012, but I don't
know of any Mayan belief that the world will end; it is merely
the end of an ancient calendar system from an ancient society.
I think people are reading things into the Mayan calendar that
the Mayans did not intend.

Ron

although the Mayan calendar is interesting, I think this is a good example of sensationalism.

Climacus Areopagite
7th May 2007, 06:41 PM
Ron,

Will the Warning occur simultaneously throughout the world, to every person at once?

Michael
7th May 2007, 09:49 PM
This should clarify the distinction between millenialism and millenarianism:

http://catholicplanet.com/future/millennialism-defined.htm

Thanks for the link Rob. I can see how one would draw the conclusion the there must be a valid interpretation of the 1000 years mentioned in Revelation; a "true millennialism". I have no idea what that valid interpretation would be. But I do know (per Catechism 676) that we will not "realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological [final] judgment."

sweet basil
7th May 2007, 11:27 PM
Ron,

This is in line with Climacus' question. If the Warning occurs simultaneously to everyone then the time of day it occurs can be determined since there are 24 time zones throughout the world. Would this be an accurate statement?

Ron Conte
8th May 2007, 02:44 AM
Ron,

Will the Warning occur simultaneously throughout the world, to every person at once?

Yes, to everyone all at once, at the same time.


Ron

Ron Conte
8th May 2007, 02:52 AM
Ron,

This is in line with Climacus' question. If the Warning occurs simultaneously to everyone then the time of day it occurs can be determined since there are 24 time zones throughout the world. Would this be an accurate statement?

Maybe. Let's see.

When it is 3 p.m. in the Holy Land, it is the same calendar day almost everywhere else in the world. So if the Warning occurs at 3 p.m. Jerusalem time, on Good Friday April 10th, 2009, then it would be Good Friday nearly everywhere on earth (except perhaps near the international dateline in the Pacific).

Well, that makes sense.

sweet basil
8th May 2007, 01:44 PM
Ron,

Jerusalem is 7 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. So if this works, the predicted time would be 8AM EST on 4/10/07.

sweet basil
8th May 2007, 01:45 PM
Sorry, wrong year. 4/10/09.

Rob
8th May 2007, 02:57 PM
Ron,

Jerusalem is 7 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. So if this works, the predicted time would be 8AM EST on 4/10/07.

It would be morning in the U.S. and nearly two o' clock across europe. The most probable time for the warning should be between 2 and 3 pm otherwise it would be saturday already for some countries or still thursday for others. Haven't thought about this, but of course it makes sense. Notice that scripture also says about 3 so it doesn't necessarily has to be 3 o' clock.

Ron Conte
8th May 2007, 04:58 PM
We have to take into account daylight savings time:
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/b.html

So, in April, Europe and the U.S. are one hour earlier.
I'm not sure how that would effect our 3 p.m. timing
for the Warning.

Rob
9th May 2007, 12:55 PM
We have to take into account daylight savings time:
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/b.html

So, in April, Europe and the U.S. are one hour earlier.
I'm not sure how that would effect our 3 p.m. timing
for the Warning.

The timing of the warning must refer to about 3 pm solar time, because that was the time used during Christ. Daylight saving time is a convention. Jerusalem is located at around 35 degrees longitude, so by analogy at 3 hours and 30 minutes (Jerusalem solar time), it will be friday everywhere in the world. Let's assume the timing will be 3 pm, so it will be 2 pm across most Europe, and 8 am eastern daylight time (Florida for example).

However in march clocks are turned farward one hour, so it will be 4 pm in Jerusalem, 3 pm across most Europe and 9 am eastern daylight time.

I think the most important thing to remember is the position of the sun at Jerusalem which must be around 3 pm solar time anyway because "the ninth hour" refers to the position of the sun, not timing conventions which did not exist during Christ. I hope I haven't made mistakes with this reasoning.

One thing is certain, the timing of the warning at Jerusalem must be around 3 pm, and certainly afternoon otherwise it will be already saturday for some countries and still thursday for others. We know that the warning happens friday, not a day earlier and not a day later for the majority of people across the world.

Paul Bellett
10th May 2007, 09:52 AM
In response to Rob said, I also believe solar sundial time makes perfect sense on how time was observed 2000 years ago.

http://hilaroad.com/camp/projects/sundial/numbers.jpg

If we look at Matthews Gospel (NIV)
Matthew 27:45- From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over the land.
27:46-ABOUT the ninth-hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabach-thani?", which means , "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Notice that verse 46 states, approx. 3:00 PM, therefore we can't really set our modern day watches to precisely this time, as we are looking at Jerusalem ninth hour 'Sundial' time, so we can may have an uncertainly of upto half an hour or so, if we set our watches by it, since Matthew did not state precisely (ninth hour)3:00PM time.

Paul

themilitantcatholic
13th May 2007, 04:27 AM
I have a feeling that from now up until the time The Warning takes place, there will be greater natural disasters, along with maybe social uprisings. I just do not see things going about in a normal fashion as is now and then out of nowhere, up pops The Warning. I could be wrong, but I keep having this feeling.

Ron Conte
13th May 2007, 12:23 PM
At La Salette, Mary described a period of more than 35 years of afflictions for the world, which in my chronology would end with the three days of darkness in early 2040. We are already in that time period. So I agree.

Paul Bellett
13th May 2007, 12:29 PM
Jacinta, one of the Garabandal seers said in an interview (http://www.ourlady.ca/info/warning&miracle2.htm) in April 1983, that "the Virgin said that the Warning would come when conditions were at their worst". I take that to mean that the tidal wave of sin like in the days of Noah has reached such a point or threshold, that it takes an act of God to intervene and correct this imbalance, hence an 'illumination of conscience', as a wakeup call for everyone, so to speak.
As for greater natural disaster's this does seem inevitable, due not just to man's greenhouse gas emissions, but the numerous other references to these in scripture. Yes, intuitively on a spiritual level, I can also sense a bumpy road ahead until the Warning comes, but at the same time, I still have a real love for God that helps immensely to personally smooth that ride for me. God the Father will certainly do what is best for his children, considering the circumstances, that we live in today.

Paul

garabandalg
15th May 2007, 06:06 AM
Ron,

Do you have any sense of the time of day that the Warning may happen? (i.e. 3PM in Jerusalem)
Also, do you think that non-electronic cameras work for the event in the sky?

Thank you and God bless!

I would not be surprised if the warning, already on Good Friday, would therefore occur at 3 pm, the hour of mercy, Jerusalem time given the events of the first Good Friday and time frames involved. Again, I think that such a time would be consistent with Ron's view that the Warning would conform to liturgical events. In other words, the mere fact that such an event would not only happen on Good Friday but at 3pm on that Good Friday, the hour of mercy and would in and of itself be a great act of mercy from a Merciful God would be a great sign to those with eyes to see and minds to ponder.

garabandalg
15th May 2007, 06:11 AM
It would be morning in the U.S. and nearly two o' clock across europe. The most probable time for the warning should be between 2 and 3 pm otherwise it would be saturday already for some countries or still thursday for others. Haven't thought about this, but of course it makes sense. Notice that scripture also says about 3 so it doesn't necessarily has to be 3 o' clock.

We read in Scripture that every hair on our head is counted, and does not this discussion of when the warning will occur, with its connection to hours and minutes and reasons for same, merely reinforce all of this? Rather than being an unnecessary exercise in speculation, I believe that such talk is a healthy acceptance and praise to the fact that The Almighty has a purpose and plan for everything He does, and those closest to Him are most likely to see a form or structure to that purpose.

garabandalg
15th May 2007, 06:18 AM
Dear members, Ron was kind enough to post my article on the 20 stations of the Pines. I have been wondering what your individual thoughts and comments on this article or these stations may be. Did one or a few strike you more than others? Why? Do you have any concerns or questions regarding some stations? How do you see these stations in light of Ron's predictions regarding the actual dates of the Warning and Miracle? I humbly and gratefully thank Ron for not only posting that piece, but providing me with the chance to hear your thoughts regarding it. It is your thoughts and observations that often nourish my own faith and motivation to continue writing about these things. I value your views and comments, and look forward to them. Thank you

http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article148.htm

Climacus Areopagite
15th May 2007, 05:08 PM
Dear members, Ron was kind enough to post my article on the 20 stations of the Pines. I have been wondering what your individual thoughts and comments on this article or these stations may be. Did one or a few strike you more than others? Why? Do you have any concerns or questions regarding some stations? How do you see these stations in light of Ron's predictions regarding the actual dates of the Warning and Miracle? I humbly and gratefully thank Ron for not only posting that piece, but providing me with the chance to hear your thoughts regarding it. It is your thoughts and observations that often nourish my own faith and motivation to continue writing about these things. I value your views and comments, and look forward to them. Thank you

http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article148.htm

I loved it :)

Climacus Areopagite
15th May 2007, 05:11 PM
We read in Scripture that every hair on our head is counted, and does not this discussion of when the warning will occur, with its connection to hours and minutes and reasons for same, merely reinforce all of this? Rather than being an unnecessary exercise in speculation, I believe that such talk is a healthy acceptance and praise to the fact that The Almighty has a purpose and plan for everything He does, and those closest to Him are most likely to see a form or structure to that purpose.

If God has every hair of our head numbered then the dates of His coming and apocalypse surely must already be determined.

garabandalg
17th May 2007, 04:07 AM
I loved it :)

I appreciate your short message of approval on the stations piece. I ask you and other members to provide more developed comments as I will benefit greatly from knowing where perhaps I may have done a better job or what areas people seem most interested in, etc

Climacus Areopagite
17th May 2007, 11:37 PM
I appreciate your short message of approval on the stations piece. I ask you and other members to provide more developed comments as I will benefit greatly from knowing where perhaps I may have done a better job or what areas people seem most interested in, etc

O.K. well in short I thought it was a pretty much perfect creation. Originally I thought Ron wrote it. It is speculative so I cant criticize it to a great extent.

garabandalg
18th May 2007, 01:20 PM
O.K. well in short I thought it was a pretty much perfect creation. Originally I thought Ron wrote it. It is speculative so I cant criticize it to a great extent.

Thanks again for your input. First, I definately take the fact you think Ron wrote it as a high compliment, as all members know the quality of Ron's work. Second, if you think it is a "perfect creation" I guess that only shows that God is always working through each of us, as we can all see in Ron's material. Let us pray for the wisdom and discernment to be effective and useful tools for The Almighty.

Joey
20th May 2007, 02:08 AM
Dear Gabriel,
I, too, think that the article is extraordinary. I love the 'station' format. It is Garabandal so well explained. My daughters, nieces, and mother just watched a DVD with me concerning Garabandal. I think your article is the perfect follow-up. Can you even imagine the Blessed Mother going to every house in Garabandal? What a blessed place. She continually makes references to the sacredness of priests, and how important it is to pray for them. She reaffirms this in Medjugorje as well. What a time for us to be living in.

garabandalg
23rd May 2007, 03:26 PM
Dear Gabriel,
I, too, think that the article is extraordinary. I love the 'station' format. It is Garabandal so well explained. My daughters, nieces, and mother just watched a DVD with me concerning Garabandal. I think your article is the perfect follow-up. Can you even imagine the Blessed Mother going to every house in Garabandal? What a blessed place. She continually makes references to the sacredness of priests, and how important it is to pray for them. She reaffirms this in Medjugorje as well. What a time for us to be living in.

Joey, your words mean a lot to me. Like all of us I am merely a poor sinner with lots of weaknesses and faults, so I am living proof that God can use just about anyone to get His points across. Your comments are most welcomed, appreciated and helpful.

garabandalg
23rd May 2007, 03:35 PM
It would be a wonderful thing if as many members of this group could get together and go to Garabandal. Believe me, nobody would forget that experience. There is nothing as peaceful on this earth as praying at The Pines. It is inspiring to think that so much happened there and yet so much of such importance is set to happen there in the near future. One truly feels closer to God there and, make no mistake about it, that town is a spiritual hot spot. The devil must hate that place, for I feel that he is highly threatened by everything about Garabandal.

Suffice it to say that at Garabandal the Hand of God, the voice of Our Blessed Mother and our humanity come as close as is possible on this earth. Every little tidbit of history and information about Garabandal discussed in the stations and beyond is a treasure revealing just how much our God loves us despite our unworthiness.

Paul Bellett
23rd May 2007, 09:45 PM
{QUOTE=garabandalg},"It would be a wonderful thing if as many members of this group could get together and go to Garabandal."

Sounds like a quite a good idea as a group activity.
When were you planning to go?

I somehow think that good news about Garabandal, really has not been widely spread amongst devout christians. I had never heard of it 10 years ago, but must of came in pretty close proximity of it, when I visited San Sebastian Spain. The main focus during that time was to drive to Lourdes which everyone has heard of.
A cousin of mine, who was an Attaché for the New Zealand Embassy in Paris, mentioned more people visit Lourdes than go up the Eiffel Tower. Little wonder when they built an international airport there! Yes, it sounds like Garabandal is a nice quiet little backwater, where there is less opportunity for distractions.
I've booked my calendar to go in May 2010 to coincide with the Miracle, perhaps also go to Fatima as side trip. The Permanent Sign will happen also in Medjugorje, but I've already been there, so Garabandal will make a nice change for us.

Paul

garabandalg
24th May 2007, 01:36 PM
{QUOTE=garabandalg},"It would be a wonderful thing if as many members of this group could get together and go to Garabandal."

Sounds like a quite a good idea as a group activity.
When were you planning to go?

I somehow think that good news about Garabandal, really has not been widely spread amongst devout christians. I had never heard of it 10 years ago, but must of came in pretty close proximity of it, when I visited San Sebastian Spain. The main focus during that time was to drive to Lourdes which everyone has heard of.
A cousin of mine, who was an Attaché for the New Zealand Embassy in Paris, mentioned more people visit Lourdes than go up the Eiffel Tower. Little wonder when they built an international airport there! Yes, it sounds like Garabandal is a nice quiet little backwater, where there is less opportunity for distractions.
I've booked my calendar to go in May 2010 to coincide with the Miracle, perhaps also go to Fatima as side trip. The Permanent Sign will happen also in Medjugorje, but I've already been there, so Garabandal will make a nice change for us.

Paul

Maybe we can aim for May of 2010 and see if it is God's Will. In any event, having been there once, I would love to be able to return at least once more. It is truly a special place.

Rob
10th June 2007, 12:12 AM
Ron,

The warning occurs on 10th april 2009 and the second secret on 12 april 2009 easter sunday. However the orthodox church will celebrate easter on 19 april 2009 and not on 12th april as catholic will. Do you think the discrepancy in time will make some orthodox realize that the catholic faith is a truest form of christianity?

Ron Conte
10th June 2007, 12:41 AM
Yes, I think so.

Climacus Areopagite
10th June 2007, 04:12 PM
good point

garabandalg
28th June 2007, 12:27 PM
I'm starting a new thread mainly becase the one main thread about the secrets articles has become so long.

Concerning the fact that I place the Miracle more than a year after the Warning (in contradiction to what one of the visionaries has said):

It is not so unusual, within true private revelations from God, or from Mary, to find some minor errors. These errors cannot be the result of God or anyone in Heaven making a mistake; God is infallible and all the Blessed in Heaven are also free from error due to their Beatific Vision of God. But the one receiving the private revelation can misunderstand, and anyone who is writing down or repeating the private revelation is also subject to possible error. Thus the Church considers even true private revelations to be fallible.

The visionary of Garabandal named Mari-Loli has said that the Miracle will happen within one year after The Warning; this has been widely interpreted to mean within 12 calendar months. But to my knowledge, Mari-Loli has never quoted the Virgin Mary word for word on that point; in fact, she has said that she can't quite remember when Mary spoke about this to her. Mary may have said that the Miracle occurs about a year after the Warning, or in the next calendar year, or some other similar wording. We don't have the exact quote; Mari-Loli apparently cannot remember the exact words.

Furthermore, Mari-Loli admits that she does not know the date of the Warning, only its calendar year. She admits that she does not know how much time will elapse between the two events. She says that she does not know if the Miracle occurs in the same calendar year as the Warning, or not. Therefore, she does not know the date of the Miracle. She has never said that the Virgin Mary specifically said “within 12 months,” and she does not seem to remember the exact wording of what was said on this point. Therefore, it is clear that Mari-Loli does not know that the Miracle will occur within 12 calendar months from the Warning.

Also, notice that the dates for the Warning and the Miracle are separated by 12 months. The Warning occurs in a particular month, then there are 12 consecutive months that do not contain the Warning or the Miracle, and then there is the month which does contain the Miracle. Mari-Loli could easily have misunderstood being told that these two events are separated by 12 months, as if they would occur within 12 months. Or perhaps she was told that the Miracle will occur the following calendar year, and she misunderstood this as if it was within a year.

Now let's look at the dates and times of the Warning and the Miracle. These two events occur exactly one year and 33 days apart. The number 33 refers to the number of years in Christ's life at His Crucifixion. Since the Warning is the first secret of Medjugorje, it will be announced by the priest chosen to announce it, Fr. Petar, three days beforehand, on April 7th. The actual date of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ in the first century A.D. was April 7th. In the liturgical calendar, the Warning (the Day of Repentance; the first secret) occurs on Good Friday, April 10th, when we remember the Crucifixion. The subsequent Day of Consolation (the second secret) occurs on Easter Sunday, April 12th. And the Miracle (the third secret) occurs on Ascension Thursday of the next calendar year, on May 13th. So the dates for these three events (the first three secrets), which include the Warning and the Miracle, fit perfectly with the liturgical calendar. This makes sense because God, in performing these miraculous and unprecedented worldwide acts, wants everyone to know that the Catholic Faith is above all other religions. So he conforms these events to the liturgical calendar of the Catholic Church.

Interestingly, the dates for Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the Orthodox liturgical calendar do not coincide with Good Friday and Easter Sunday in the Catholic liturgical calendar in the year 2009, when the Warning (first secret) and the second secret occur. But the date of the Miracle (third secret) in the next year, 2010, is Ascension Thursday in both the Catholic and Orthodox calendars.

The Garabandal story is filled with examples where simple times of apparitions and messages turned out to be off by some hours. As Ron said God is infallible and He of course does not lie. Neither would The Blessed Virgin. Now predicted or promised events can be divided into short and long term. The short term ones would be such things as when the Virgin told the girls that She would appear to them at such and such time or when Conchita was told when the Miracle of The Visible Host would occur. The long term ones would be such things as the Warning and Miracle as discussed here.

Followers of the Garabandal story will recall that the Miracle of The Visible Host occurred some time after it was expected, as did the last message. In both cases I believe that God was testing the faith of those present. Since neither God nor the Virgin would ever lie, this test would be accomplished by allowing for some slight miscalculation or misinterpretation of the seers. As Ron has pointed out, even the greatest saints made mistakes, but God can use such mistakes for His greater purposes. In both the short and long term cases, God demonstrates to us that while our humanity may sometimes make it tougher for us to do His Will and seek our own and others' salvation, it need not prevent us from doing so. He shows us this by using that humanity to serve His greater purpose. In this way God tests our faith while still being infallible Hiimself and, of course, never deceiving us.

garabandalg
28th June 2007, 12:32 PM
Ron,

Do you have any sense of the time of day that the Warning may happen? (i.e. 3PM in Jerusalem)
Also, do you think that non-electronic cameras work for the event in the sky?

Thank you and God bless!

This is, of course, only my opinion, but I believe that the Warning will occur at 3pm Jerusalem time. As Ron has stated, God wants to show that the Catholic faith is above all others. It is commonly accepted that 3pm is about the time when Christ died. This death was the greatest act of love ever performed on this earth. That act of love was also an act of Divine Mercy, thus the hour of Divine Mercy is 3pm. The Warning is also an act of great mercy, since through it God is offering us His Mercy once again. Christ died in Jerusalem, thus what better way to show all of this than to have the Warning occur at 3pm Jerusalem time. Wouldn't that be about 9pm NY time?

garabandalg
28th June 2007, 12:39 PM
A little aside . . . I don't know if I'd reject an apparition based on one statement where someone said that we'll see ourselves as God sees us. I say this knowing that I've carelessly described it this way more than once. I was trying to convey that I saw my sins more clearly and became more aware of their effect. It was an attempt to show that I saw myself in a brighter light, with a more truthful perspective, which would be closer to how God sees me. But, of course, I will never be able to see anything the way God sees it. I wonder if for lack of imagination, others have made the same sloppy analogy.

"A" is for angel. Seems possible enough. Secrets schmecrets--why does God have to be so cryptic? Maybe to appeal to people who like to do a bit of sleuthing? I think it'd be helpful if God spelled out the whole thing, but He doesn't consult me (don't think I'm being literal here, that's a joke).

For years I hardly ever thought about that dream, but lately I've been obsessing about it. Gotta stop! Thank you for sharing your insights with me, Ron.

I can relate, Hope, to your comments about the nature of the Warning. I too may have described it as we seeing ourselves as God sees us. Now I realize the foolishness of such a thought, since we could never do anything as God does. As you see, most likely it will be seeing ourselves as God would want us to see ourselves, with clarity and realization of how our actions have impacted others, for better or for worse.

garabandalg
28th June 2007, 12:59 PM
God works in mysterious yet profound ways. I stumbled across a magazine which included an ad for pilgrimages to Garabandal, Lourdes and Fatima. We were looking for a home at that exact time and had to choose between directing our energies to get the house or go on the pilgrimage. We chose the latter because we figured God was much more important than a house. We ended up getting the house almost miraculously before the trip. When in Garabandal we met Serafin, Conchita's brother, who was incredible. I wrote a piece on him for Garabandal International Magazine and they liked it enough to make me a regular contributor. This writing has developed to the point where I now write for various conservative websites, often against abortion and anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Now Garabandal is a microcosm of the how the world reacts to such things as these apparitions. Half the town does not believe in them and many people are reluctant to discuss them despite the fact that they occurred right there. This shows how the world will dare to ignore, spin or deny what is coming. I love that town. One feels as though one was in Fatima during those apparitions or Lourdes during those apparitions. It is simple, rustic and peaceful. I cannot put my finger on it, but it is definately a spiritual hot spot. While we were there my wife experienced an evil presence which left when she held out a scapular. The next day I also experienced something weird. As I lay in bed, I heard a swoosh as if something was coming through the ceiling and landed on my back. It felt like a cat with wings. I immediately prayed the St. Michael exorcism and the presence lifted off me. I think Garabandal is a battlefront between good and evil. There is no doubt that this place is special in the history of the church. It has a powerful sense of simplicity mixed with sacredness. There are two paths leading up to the Pines. One is rocky and somewhat treacherous ( the seers ran backwards down this path while in ecstasy!) where the only thing one can hold on to are thorny bushes ( crucifixion symbol?). There is built-in Stations of The Cross in this path which makes perfect sense. Once one reaches the top the Pines themselves have to be one of the best places on earth to pray. One almost cannot help it. As it turns out, they have built a smoother, yet longer path going down the other side. I have vertigo and could barely make it up the first day. By my last day I was running up. I figured that God would never allow me to get hurt going up to His special place. My trip to Garabandal changed my life. I would love to return and add to my experiences there, with the hope of someday writing a book on Garabandal. I have written many published articles on Garabandal, but I think the Stations piece is the summary of everything. Anyone reading this site should try to go there; they will never regret it.

Ron Conte
28th June 2007, 01:07 PM
Christ died in Jerusalem, thus what better way to show all of this than to have the Warning occur at 3pm Jerusalem time. Wouldn't that be about 9pm NY time?

No.
3 p.m. Jerusalen time is 8 am NY time, and 5 a.m. california time.

I do agree with several members of this group that the time that Jesus died is the most likely time of day for the Warning.

I would suggest that the Warning might occur based on suntime, not on Jerusalem Daylight Savings Time, which (as I understand it) will be in effect at that time. Daylight Savings Time is plus one hour.

So when the clock in Jerusalem says 3 p.m. Daylight time, it is really still 2 p.m. Standard Time. Also, 3 p.m. suntime is probably a few minutes prior to 3 p.m. Standard Time.

So 3:52 p.m. Jerusalem Daylight Savings Time on April 10th, 2009 is equivalent to the nineth hour by the ancient Jewish method of tracking time (basically 3 p.m. suntime). This is 12:52 Universal Time (without Daylight Savings).

By London Time, this would be 1:52 p.m. British Summer Time
By New York Time, this would be 8:52 a.m. Daylight Savings Time.
By Los Angeles Time, this would be 5:52 a.m. Daylight Savings Time.
By Honolulu Time, this would be 2:52 a.m. Standard Time (no daylight savings time in Hawaii).
By Tokyo Time, this would be 9:52 p.m. Japan Standard Time.


Ron

garabandalg
28th June 2007, 02:17 PM
No.
3 p.m. Jerusalen time is 8 am NY time, and 5 a.m. california time.

I do agree with several members of this group that the time that Jesus died is the most likely time of day for the Warning.

I would suggest that the Warning might occur based on suntime, not on Jerusalem Daylight Savings Time, which (as I understand it) will be in effect at that time. Daylight Savings Time is plus one hour.

So when the clock in Jerusalem says 3 p.m. Daylight time, it is really still 2 p.m. Standard Time. Also, 3 p.m. suntime is probably a few minutes prior to 3 p.m. Standard Time.

So 3:52 p.m. Jerusalem Daylight Savings Time on April 10th, 2009 is equivalent to the nineth hour by the ancient Jewish method of tracking time (basically 3 p.m. suntime). This is 12:52 Universal Time (without Daylight Savings).

By London Time, this would be 1:52 p.m. British Summer Time
By New York Time, this would be 8:52 a.m. Daylight Savings Time.
By Los Angeles Time, this would be 5:52 a.m. Daylight Savings Time.
By Honolulu Time, this would be 2:52 a.m. Standard Time (no daylight savings time in Hawaii).
By Tokyo Time, this would be 9:52 p.m. Japan Standard Time.


Ron

Pardon the enthusiasm, but imagine if this kind of precision did occur.

Paul Bellett
29th June 2007, 09:32 AM
From what I understand the effects of "The Warning" will polarize people, those who feel that they must repent from their sins, and those who wish to be unrepentant by denying what they are doing is 'not wrong' and opposing God. There is no sitting on the fence, for peoples' consciences.
God does not like lukewarm decisions. I believe the 'The Warning' will hit people's psyche like a Tsunami!

Because of this, one of the side-effects that I would envision is that it will certainly effect the Wall St sharemarket, with the major Japan market secumbing first when it opens, because of their time-zone advantage.
The rationale behind this, is that the current bull market refers to a market that is on the rise - prices are based on confidence & speculation regarding the likelyhood of a share value rising.
The Warning would likely trigger uncertainy & more often confusion with a lot of people's decisions, this inevitably decreases confidence on what is happening around them, with the sharemarket subsequently turning into a bear market with the share values decreasing.
Maundy Thursday would be a really good day to sell and make a profit, but after Good Friday, when the Sharemarket reopens again, a lot of people I believe will get their investment fingers burnt, especially those with huge investments! :-)

garabandalg
29th June 2007, 05:49 PM
From what I understand the effects of "The Warning" will polarize people, those who feel that they must repent from their sins, and those who wish to be unrepentant by denying what they are doing is 'not wrong' and opposing God. There is no sitting on the fence, for peoples' consciences.
God does not like lukewarm decisions. I believe the 'The Warning' will hit people's psyche like a Tsunami!

Because of this, one of the side-effects that I would envision is that it will certainly effect the Wall St sharemarket, with the major Japan market secumbing first when it opens, because of their time-zone advantage.
The rationale behind this, is that the current bull market refers to a market that is on the rise - prices are based on confidence & speculation regarding the likelyhood of a share value rising.
The Warning would likely trigger uncertainy & more often confusion with a lot of people's decisions, this inevitably decreases confidence on what is happening around them, with the sharemarket subsequently turning into a bear market with the share values decreasing.
Maundy Thursday would be a really good day to sell and make a profit, but after Good Friday, when the Sharemarket reopens again, a lot of people I believe will get their investment fingers burnt, especially those with huge investments! :-)

Paul: I agree that this event will certainly push people to one way or the other. I think God wants to make "sitting on the fence" nearly impossible as time goes on, because things will be so dramatic that no person could possibly ignore or be neutral with regard to the implications of things.

Climacus Areopagite
29th June 2007, 06:01 PM
{20:9} May your hand be found by all your enemies. May your right hand discover all those who hate you.

myLivingBread
30th June 2007, 07:52 AM
No.
3 p.m. Jerusalen time is 8 am NY time, and 5 a.m. california time.

I do agree with several members of this group that the time that Jesus died is the most likely time of day for the Warning.

I would suggest that the Warning might occur based on suntime, not on Jerusalem Daylight Savings Time, which (as I understand it) will be in effect at that time. Daylight Savings Time is plus one hour.

So when the clock in Jerusalem says 3 p.m. Daylight time, it is really still 2 p.m. Standard Time. Also, 3 p.m. suntime is probably a few minutes prior to 3 p.m. Standard Time.

So 3:52 p.m. Jerusalem Daylight Savings Time on April 10th, 2009 is equivalent to the nineth hour by the ancient Jewish method of tracking time (basically 3 p.m. suntime). This is 12:52 Universal Time (without Daylight Savings).

By London Time, this would be 1:52 p.m. British Summer Time
By New York Time, this would be 8:52 a.m. Daylight Savings Time.
By Los Angeles Time, this would be 5:52 a.m. Daylight Savings Time.
By Honolulu Time, this would be 2:52 a.m. Standard Time (no daylight savings time in Hawaii).
By Tokyo Time, this would be 9:52 p.m. Japan Standard Time.


Ron

In my country Philippines , 8:52 pm Good Friday also and same to Hongkong, China , Taipei, Singapore,Brunei,Malaysia,and Perch.

In Auckland Fiji, Wake Island and Kiribari that would be 1:52 am Saturday, these are the only place that differs.

Paul Bellett
30th June 2007, 10:00 AM
Yes MyLivingBread, I will also receive the 'Warning' not long after you at approximately 10:52PM, give or take on or two minutes, but still on Good Friday, due to Jerusalem Daylight Saving. :-)
MyLivingBread, Auckland Fiji, Wake Island and Kiribari are two hours ahead of us, so "The Warning" will NOT happen at approx. 1:52 AM on Saturday but an hour earlier at 12:52 AM. Compared to the world population for this time zone, 99.99% of Earth's people will still receive 'The Warning' on Good Friday.

I would like to see a bit of divine social justice intervening in the multinational corporate world when 'The Warning' arrives.
I know that the wages in the Philipines are not all that wonderful. I'm on about an average wage here in Australia of around $25 per hour + 9% extra is paid by all employers for compulsory Superannuation(Retirement).
Take for example Nike - a manufacturer of sports shoes.
An average priced Nike shoe would sell for around $200 USD. A foreign worker will get 20 cents an hour making these shoes -thats 0.1% of the the resell price.
I am hoping people will either boycott Nike and see their market shares plummet or their corporate executives be more socially responsible and realise what they are doing is sinful by exploiting workers livelyhoods.
Checkout :-
http://clrlabor.org/alerts/1997/nikey001.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NKE

myLivingBread
1st July 2007, 02:09 AM
Yes MyLivingBread, I will also receive the 'Warning' not long after you at approximately 10:52PM, give or take on or two minutes, but still on Good Friday, due to Jerusalem Daylight Saving. :-)
MyLivingBread, Auckland Fiji, Wake Island and Kiribari are two hours ahead of us, so "The Warning" will NOT happen at approx. 1:52 AM on Saturday but an hour earlier at 12:52 AM. Compared to the world population for this time zone, 99.99% of Earth's people will still receive 'The Warning' on Good Friday.

I would like to see a bit of divine social justice intervening in the multinational corporate world when 'The Warning' arrives.
I know that the wages in the Philipines are not all that wonderful. I'm on about an average wage here in Australia of around $25 per hour + 9% extra is paid by all employers for compulsory Superannuation(Retirement).
Take for example Nike - a manufacturer of sports shoes.
An average priced Nike shoe would sell for around $200 USD. A foreign worker will get 20 cents an hour making these shoes -thats 0.1% of the the resell price.
I am hoping people will either boycott Nike and see their market shares plummet or their corporate executives be more socially responsible and realise what they are doing is sinful by exploiting workers livelyhoods.
Checkout :-
http://clrlabor.org/alerts/1997/nikey001.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NKE


Hi Paul,

Thank you for the correction, speaking of this multinational corp. many of
their products were made by us, because of a very cheap labor wage. They pay around $ 5 U.S. for days work,for each laborer.That pay of mostly filipino family was enough for basic food only ,yet we survive because perhaps of a very close family ties, cooperation, and most all the Rosary.

Jose
2nd July 2007, 06:47 AM
I believe the economy and market will be anemic way before the Warning.

Paul Bellett
2nd July 2007, 10:51 AM
I believe the economy and market will be anemic way before the Warning..
That's interesting José- Is this a gut feeling of intuiton or is it something else that has prompted you to come to this conclusion?

Try clicking on >> My Countdown Clock (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?day=10&month=4&year=2009&hour=22&min=52&sec=0&p0=152)<<-[Hold down the Ctrl key if using IE7 browser for New Tab] set to "3:00PM" i.e. -> ~2.52PM Jerusalem Solar Sundial time from Melbourne Australia,
but you can also customize it from your own time zone :-).

Not really all that long to go now !!!

Ron Conte
2nd July 2007, 12:42 PM
the Warning occurs everywhere on earth at the same time.
Here is my version of Paul's countdown clock:
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?month=04&day=10&year=2009&hour=12&min=52&sec=01&p0=0
It is in Universal Time (GMT) so you must adjust for Daylight Saving and Time Zone.

I'm working on a web page that will list major cities and the time of the Warning.


Ron

JuanLuis
3rd July 2007, 12:02 AM
Ron make a blog (thread/tab) specially for the countdown clock.:wink:

myLivingBread
3rd July 2007, 12:42 AM
Thanks for the info.
Here is my countdown setting setting< Manila Philippine, Time


http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?month=4&day=10&year=2009&hour=8pm&min=52&sec=00&p0=145

garabandalg
5th July 2007, 12:23 PM
the Warning occurs everywhere on earth at the same time.
Here is my version of Paul's countdown clock:
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?month=04&day=10&year=2009&hour=12&min=52&sec=01&p0=0
It is in Universal Time (GMT) so you must adjust for Daylight Saving and Time Zone.

I'm working on a web page that will list major cities and the time of the Warning.


Ron

This countdown makes the one in Times Square seem quite trivial on many levels to say the least.

Pav
16th January 2008, 06:52 PM
I'm not sure if these questions have been asked but during the warning and miracle will all ten Medjugorje secrets be reveiled? Will some of the secrets be avoided if much conversion and prayers are made?

Ron Conte
16th January 2008, 07:59 PM
I'm not sure if these questions have been asked but during the warning and miracle will all ten Medjugorje secrets be reveiled? Will some of the secrets be avoided if much conversion and prayers are made?

Even after the Warning and the Miracle, false claims will be spread about the future and about the other secrets. The visionaries will not, as far as I know, reveal all the secrets at one time. The ten secrets will each occur; they cannot be avoided, regardless of the amount of prayer and conversion.

St. Thomas More
30th January 2008, 03:30 PM
Ron:

Do you think that this passage from Song of Songs could refer to Blessed Imelda Lambertini's death upon receipt of her first Eucharist on May 12, 1333? She was longing for the Eucharist beforehand.


[Song of Songs 3]

{3:1} Bride: On my bed, throughout the night, I sought him whom my soul loves. I sought him, and did not find him.

{3:2} I will rise up, and I will circle through the city. Through the side streets and thoroughfares, I will seek him whom my soul loves. I sought him, and did not find him.

{3:3} The watchers who guard the city found me: “Have you seen him whom my soul loves?”

{3:4} When I had passed by them a little, I found him whom my soul loves. I held him, and would not release him, until I would bring him into my mother’s house, and into the chamber of her who bore me.

Ron Conte
30th January 2008, 04:35 PM
No, I don't think Sacred Scripture refers to that one Blessed with that passage. It is much broader in meaning, referring to the relationship between the Church and Christ, and also to the relationship between an individual disciple and Christ.

Nachete
3rd April 2008, 01:35 AM
I've a fear. I'll tell you.

I've always wondered one thing about the warning prophetised in Garabandal. My fears are that the revelation in Garabandal could happen to be, not from the Spirit of God, but from other "evil" source. So lots of people live and put their faith in these revelations (mainly Garabandal and Medjugorje), but those foretold things never happen, so people start loosing their faith (may be such simmilar thing could have happened to first Christians who thought that the return of Jesus Christ was near).

What do you think? I know Ron has an evaluation on lots of revelations, including these two, but could this be a possibility?

JuanLuis
4th April 2008, 03:13 PM
I have thought the same sometimes, but Saint Padre Pio confirmed the authencity of those revelations; here is an excellent source of info:
http://www.garabandal.us/padre_pio.html

Nachete
5th April 2008, 07:28 PM
Well, there's evidence that Garabandal might be true. I'¡ve read that in Fatima, Our Lady said that she would come back in San Sebastian (meaning San Sebastian of Garabandal)

However, I've found sites that relate it with UFOs, since they say that some kind of "ballons" where seen in Garabandal. This is also quite disturbing.

But being Garabandal true, it doesn't mean Medjugorje is. I don't know.

VKallin
8th May 2008, 11:12 AM
The following article was on Spirit Daily this morning. Would the Beatification of JP II in October have any affect on his Cannonization in May 2010 ?

http://www.spiritdaily.com/cwtemplate.htm

Ron Conte
8th May 2008, 12:39 PM
Well, there's evidence that Garabandal might be true. I'¡ve read that in Fatima, Our Lady said that she would come back in San Sebastian (meaning San Sebastian of Garabandal)

However, I've found sites that relate it with UFOs, since they say that some kind of "ballons" where seen in Garabandal. This is also quite disturbing.

But being Garabandal true, it doesn't mean Medjugorje is. I don't know.

None of the visionaries of Garabandal talk about UFOs or the like.
That would seem to be merely a misinterpretation of the various signs given at Garabandal, or perhaps even a complete fabrication by persons who are not grounded in the beliefs and practices of the Catholic faith.