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Ron Conte
27th April 2007, 03:30 PM
This article
http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false-private-revelations.htm

is a comprehensive look at various tricks used by false private revelations.


Ron

RJP2006
27th April 2007, 04:21 PM
a huge article - quite and Easter present.

Interesting observations about Angels.

About the "tricks" used by false revelations - this could be another one. Often times, a "visionary" may be a little more ignorant than his/her "handlers"

We can see why the Church is so strict about making judgments on sources of private revelation - because people can be easily deceived by other powers.

Too many don't give the Holy Spirit enough credit. The church has been battered at times, hit by scandals, but she's still the one true vessel moving forward in hope!

Climacus Areopagite
27th April 2007, 04:27 PM
Thank you Ron. I look forward to reading.

Climacus Areopagite
28th April 2007, 09:37 PM
I am reading the article and I have an interesting question. Are the bad angels able to manipulate the natural world enough to appear as a person. Or can they only appear as a person by affecting the imagination of a human.

The reason I ask is that I heard a story of a holy woman who lived in the 1900s I forgot her name. She grew up in a wealthy family and she was planning on entering the convent when she was old enough. While growing up in her teens her parents made her attend the balls rich people throw. She was never interested in dancing and would just watch and think about holy things or whatever. Well one time a dashing young handsome man in his early twenties entered the ball. No one seemed to know him and he kept to himself. Eventually, he walked up to this girl and attempted to seduce her into dancing. She admitted later that she was temporarily enthralled by him and was about to say yes, but she fought off the temptation and declined.
Later she became a nun and was known as holy. Could the man have been a fallen angel in "disguise."

Ron Conte
28th April 2007, 09:54 PM
I am reading the article and I have an interesting question. Are the bad angels able to manipulate the natural world enough to appear as a person. Or can they only appear as a person by affecting the imagination of a human.

The reason I ask is that I heard a story of a holy woman who lived in the 1900s I forgot her name. She grew up in a wealthy family and she was planning on entering the convent when she was old enough. While growing up in her teens her parents made her attend the balls rich people throw. She was never interested in dancing and would just watch and think about holy things or whatever. Well one time a dashing young handsome man in his early twenties entered the ball. No one seemed to know him and he kept to himself. Eventually, he walked up to this girl and attempted to seduce her into dancing. She admitted later that she was temporarily enthralled by him and was about to say yes, but she fought off the temptation and declined.
Later she became a nun and was known as holy. Could the man have been a fallen angel in "disguise."

Very unlikely. But perhaps Providence was permitting her to be tested by an individual human person, not a fallen angel.

Fallen angels can affect the human imagination, but they cannot become incarnate. They can appear as visions and apparitions of various persons, but they cannot become corporeal.

Ron Conte
28th April 2007, 09:56 PM
About the "tricks" used by false revelations - this could be another one. Often times, a "visionary" may be a little more ignorant than his/her "handlers"

Often the visionary is very ignorant of Church teaching and of Scripture, and even boasts about not knowing any theology. The adherents of such visionaries present this as if it were 'proof' that they are genuine; they say that the visionary could not have invented the messages because the visionary lacks a proper education in the Faith. But even after receiving claimed messages and apparitions, these visionaries do not bother reading about the Catholic faith. They only learn from their messages and apparitions. And then they present themselves as teachers of the Faith.

Climacus Areopagite
28th April 2007, 10:53 PM
Very unlikely. But perhaps Providence was permitting her to be tested by an individual human person, not a fallen angel.

Fallen angels can affect the human imagination, but they cannot become incarnate. They can appear as visions and apparitions of various persons, but they cannot become corporeal.

Roger that Ron. Anyway these false private revelations are like a circus. Apart from the serious matter of them decieving people they are ridiculous. A few times when I read your evaluations of them I start to laugh aloud.

Rob
29th April 2007, 05:26 PM
Very nice article, Ron. I particularly liked the initial part about angels and the spiritual world. I wonder if you could address the theme of angels, fallen angels and the spiritual realm more deeply in a subsequent article. There are faithful who believe that Satan is the "prince" of this world and they do also wrongly believe that Hell is his kingdom (which as far as I am aware is not true). Just some thoughts.

Peace to you

Roberto

Joey
30th April 2007, 12:57 AM
Ron,
That was so worth reading! It is very informative and made so much sense. I feel like I am coming away from college courses after reading your articles. But there is no fee. And then......PLOOP! Right into our laps is the biggest bonus. We are so much more enriched by the knowledge of our faith. I know that you are a humble man and don't wish to be put on a pedestal. That is not my intention. But it would be wrong of me not to acknowledge or thank you for the tremendous job that you do.
With much gratitude................

Padraig
30th April 2007, 05:46 AM
I read this in the bible lat night:

Micah 3:5-12

5 This is what the LORD says:
"As for the prophets
who lead my people astray,
if one feeds them,
they proclaim 'peace';
if he does not,
they prepare to wage war against him.

6 Therefore night will come over you, without visions,
and darkness, without divination.
The sun will set for the prophets,
and the day will go dark for them.

7 The seers will be ashamed
and the diviners disgraced.
They will all cover their faces
because there is no answer from God."

8 But as for me, I am filled with power,
with the Spirit of the LORD,
and with justice and might,
to declare to Jacob his transgression,
to Israel his sin.

9 Hear this, you leaders of the house of Jacob,
you rulers of the house of Israel,
who despise justice
and distort all that is right;

10 who build Zion with bloodshed,
and Jerusalem with wickedness.

11 Her leaders judge for a bribe,
her priests teach for a price,
and her prophets tell fortunes for money.
Yet they lean upon the LORD and say,
"Is not the LORD among us?
No disaster will come upon us."

12 Therefore because of you,
Zion will be plowed like a field,
Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble,
the temple hill a mound overgrown with thickets.

Brother
30th April 2007, 07:48 PM
Important information Ron and I have two questions regarding the apparition of fallen angels...

1)

They can appear as visions and apparitions of various persons, but they cannot become corporeal.

I always taught that the two angels that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah appeared corporal (or fleshy like) to Lot; at least, it looks like they did based on what chapter 19 of Genesis describes of them and specially the following verse:

{19:3} He pressed them very much to turn aside to him. And when they had entered his house, he made a feast for them, and he cooked unleavened bread, and they ate.

So these Angels entered Lot's house, even ate the food Lot cooked, stayed overnight, the other evil people who saw them wanted to enter Lot's house and know these Angels (they have to have appeared human like), then the Angels helped Lot to close the door.

These two were Holy Angels, but if the fallen angels can retain all their natural abilities, then, they would be able to do so too (or maybe not this specific quality? :confused: ).

I'm also asking because according to some people, there are some "aliens from out of space" who appear to them or UFO sighting and those entities tell those people that they are the "saviors of the world" so they make people look to them as if they are "gods" or "saviors", to focus on them as saviors and even worship them (some people even have ceremonies waiting for their appearance in public places), not on Jesus-Christ so I wonder if those are no more than fallen angels appearing to those people.

2)
What would you suggest how to test an alleged apparition?
I have never received one, but in the case I have in the future, how would be the best way to test them so we are confident it is from God, not a deceiving fallen angel.

Regarding my second question, the Bible tells us the following regarding testing the spirits:

[1 John 4]
{4:1} Most beloved, do not be willing to believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.
{4:2} The Spirit of God may be known in this way. Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has arrived in the flesh is of God;
{4:3} and every spirit who contradicts Jesus is not of God. And this one is the Antichrist, the one that you have heard is coming, and even now he is in the world.

This particular question is because some of the alleged apparitions that are proven to be false, apparently acknowledge that Jesus came to die for us.

Ron Conte
30th April 2007, 10:12 PM
1. angels cannot become incarnate, and they have no natural ability to become corporeal; therefore, fallen angels also lack such an ability.

Concerning the passages in Scripture where an angel appears under the guise of a human being, this should be generally understood to be appearances only. They seemed to eat and drink; they seemed to be human beings. But they were angels.

God does have the ability to assist the holy angels in their task by means of His miracles, but generally angels accomplish their assigned tasks with their own natural abilities (as do we all).

As for fallen angels, they can act with sinful deception (which holy angels cannot do).

2. as for discerning true from false private revelation, see my articles on the subject at CatholicPlanet.com

Brother
30th April 2007, 11:22 PM
Thanks Ron, this really answers my question, so even though Angels can not become incarnate (I think this is a better word to describe it) since they are spirits only; they can "appear" so human like, go to bed, eat, etc., that they can even fool humans (like those two angels did to the people of Sodom who were waiting outside Lot's house).

In other words, they "appear" corporal; they don't "become" corporal.

I understand that they can also appear in other different ways.

The following is a letter from a young Marine to his mother in which he says that St. Michael the Archangel appeared to him in human form and saved his life. According to the story, it has witnesses; one of them is the navy chaplain, Father Walter Muldy.

Link1:
http://www.sspxafrica.com/documents/2002_September/The_Story_of_Michael.htm

Link2:
http://www.latinmass-ctm.org/pub/tallestmarine/thetallestofallmarines.html

This letter is going around in different websites now and have even been read on radio, if you get a chance to read it, do you think it is trustworthy based on what it says?

Ron Conte
1st May 2007, 12:02 AM
I have no way of judging if the account is true.
However, angels can appear as if human and can assist and intervene in human affairs.


Ron

sweet basil
1st May 2007, 12:22 PM
Ron,

Interesting article. It makes me question how much of my own thoughts are mine and what is "reality" and what is not. There is so much going on around us all the time that we are not aware of. The more I learn the more amazed I become. I look forward to one day, God willing, to having my eyes opened.

Brother
1st May 2007, 03:59 PM
Thanks Ron this kind of information will help us be prepared for the events that we are now witnessing and that are yet to come.

I think the alleged apparitions of images of Jesus or the Virgin Mary on grilled cheese, chips, tortillas, potatoes or any food, can be fallen angels working the minds of people to the point of even doing business with them.

John Leary (with false private revelations) is now bringing the "news" of the school shooting in Virginia by the young student.

Climacus Areopagite
1st May 2007, 04:40 PM
Very nice article, Ron. I particularly liked the initial part about angels and the spiritual world. I wonder if you could address the theme of angels, fallen angels and the spiritual realm more deeply in a subsequent article. There are faithful who believe that Satan is the "prince" of this world and they do also wrongly believe that Hell is his kingdom (which as far as I am aware is not true). Just some thoughts.

Peace to you

Roberto

I second this.

Mary's Child
1st May 2007, 10:56 PM
Wish I would have had this before I spent too much time and money visiting Holy Love (2 times, including flights, hotel rooms and car rentals) and reading Christina Gallagher's biography.

Having witnessed Holy Love twice, I could not have discerned anything wrong. Now that I have read your posts and your most recent, in-depth discussion, I can see how I was duped.

The same goes for Christina Gallagher. Two of my aunts went to Ireland and were "sealed." They truly believe they will not suffer any chastisement. I hate to tell them....., but I will.

God Bless you Ron,

Mary's Child

Ron Conte
2nd May 2007, 12:02 AM
Thanks Mary's Child

Glad I could help.


Ron

Climacus Areopagite
7th May 2007, 06:33 PM
[1 John 4]
{4:1} Most beloved, do not be willing to believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.

logue
9th May 2007, 01:20 AM
I believe I have mentioned this already in previous threads, but it bears repeating. These false visionaries need our prayers. They are falling for this and do not know better. Before I found Ron's materials I would have fallen for it. It is direct spiritual warfare on these people. The false visionaries I am sure have every good intention and feel honored by the visits. We should pray for them. May God have mercy on them.

Jose
9th May 2007, 06:01 AM
These false visionaries know exactly what they are doing...many for money, like Bayside, others for a feel good experience from a wealthy life, like Carol Ameche, or many to bring in the New Age of a modern feminst Mary, they all have an agenda. They are not dupes or being conned by supernatural forces. Some might be crazy John Leary, who uses modern televangelists material, from the likes of Jack Van Impe, with all this chip on the forehead and Antichrist stuff. Pray for them,but dont excuse them.

Love The Fisherman
9th May 2007, 11:07 AM
I think it goes a little deeper than this Jose. We are talking about people who engage with deamons. They are in big trouble spiritually. Very often it is the people around them that lap up the gravy. It is a complicated business. They need Deliverance. Peace to your Heart.

Ron Conte
9th May 2007, 12:01 PM
Some of the false visionaries will repent and renounce their false messages. Others will die in a state of obstinacy without sanctifying grace.

[Zechariah 13]
{13:1} In that day, there will be a fountain open to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for the washing of the transgressor and of the defiled woman.
{13:2} And this shall be in that day, says the Lord of hosts: I will disperse the names of the idols from the earth, and they will not be remembered any longer. And I will take away the false prophets and the unclean spirit from the earth.
{13:3} And this shall be: when any devotee will continue to prophesy, his father and his mother, who conceived him, will say to him, “You shall not live, because you have been speaking a lie in the name of the Lord.” And his father and his mother, his own parents, will pierce him, when he will prophesy.
{13:4} And this shall be: In that day, the prophets will be confounded, each one by his own vision, when he will prophesy. Neither will they be covered with a garment of sackcloth in order to deceive.
{13:5} But he will say, “I am not a prophet; I am a man of agriculture. For Adam has been my example from my youth.”
{13:6} And they will say to him, “What are these wounds in the middle of your hands?” And he will say, “I was wounded with these in the house of those who love me.”

Brother
9th May 2007, 01:20 PM
Maybe the Warning will have something to do with what Ron quoted from prophet Zechariah because it will tell the false seers and it will tell us many truths so we can see clearer where we are in life. They can repent from that false "prophecy" and it will be easier for us to identify them, and also:

{13:6} And they will say to him, “What are these wounds in the middle of your hands?” And he will say, “I was wounded with these in the house of those who love me.”

This can be in reference on the false stigmata of some false seers.

Ron Conte
9th May 2007, 02:06 PM
I think that both the warning and the miracle have the effect of diminishing the claims and influence of the false visionaries.

Paul Bellett
10th May 2007, 10:59 AM
Ron's new article 'Tricks by False Private Revelations" is certainly 'Worth its Salt' in his appraisal of all visionaries.

Speaking of Salt :-
Luke 14:34 -"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltness, how can it be made salty again?"
14:35 -It is fit neither for the soil nor the manure pile; it is thrown out"
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".

Yes, we all have to take great care not to be deceived, since the physical/spiritual world is full of deception as his Article demonstrates.

And Yes, and you can even get deceived with just common table salt.
When I went to school, I was taught Salt was chemically called SodiumChloride (NaCl), but not always so - these days, if you believe all the marketing hype.
They have now introduced Lite Salt. This has 50% less Sodium.
I said to myself, how did they get rid of the 50% Sodium, and still call it 'Salt' (NaCl), there must be some deceptive trick to this.
Yes sure enough, they adulterate it, by replacing it with 50% Potassium Chloride (KCl).
Interestingly, Potassium Chloride is toxic in large doses, as it is primarily used
in lethal injections for US executions (which is barbaric by the way) to stop the heart from beating, and thus cause death: see also cardiac arrest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride
To me this is a good analogy for when you mix truth with falsehood, ultimately your soul "is mortally wounded or goes into cardiac arrest", when ingesting too much falsehood mixed with the true salt.

God Bless You and all Your Loved Ones .... Today and Always

Paul