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View Full Version : Wasn't Pius X canonized in 1954 within the life time of Conchita?


Ron Conte
1st February 2008, 01:38 AM
This is a question I was asked by e-mail:
Wasn't Pius X canonized in 1954 within the life time of Conchita?

He was beatified in 1951 and canonized in 1954. So I'm not sure, now, about the event that has occurred a few times in Church history, but not since Conchita was born. It still seems to me that it is most likely the canonization of Pope John Paul II. Perhaps Conchita did not know that Pope Pius X's canonization occurred in her lifetime (she was about 4 or 5 at the time).

john
1st February 2008, 01:47 PM
I am sorry Ron. Could you explain the significance of the question? Did Conchita say that something would happen after a papal canonization?

Ron Conte
1st February 2008, 02:41 PM
She said that the date of the Miracle coincides with an event in the Church that has happened only a few times in history, and not since she has been born.

St. Thomas More
1st February 2008, 03:50 PM
Could it be the unification of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Or Anglican Church?

daytonafreak
1st February 2008, 04:11 PM
She said that the date of the Miracle coincides with an event in the Church that has happened only a few times in history, and not since she has been born.

Does anybody know what year that statement was made?

Also, remember that Pope John XXIII was beatified by Pope John Paul II in 2000, but I think that was certainly after Conchita made that statement.

Ron, I have to say that I still believe you are correct on the issue. I think there is a strong connection between Blessed Imelda Lambertini and Pope John Paul II. We all know of the first assassination attempt on May 13, 1981(May 13 being Blessed Imelda's feast day) but did you also know that the second attempt on his life was made on May 12, 1982 in Fatima, Portugal. (May 12 being the actual day that Blessed Imelda died) Also, didn't you say that the one of apparitions at Fatima began on May 13th? I still feel a strong connection.


About the second assassination attempt, from wikipedia- "Another assassination attempt took place on 12 May 1982, just a day before the anniversary of the last attempt on his life, in Fatima, Portugal when a man tried to stab John Paul II with a bayonet, but was stopped by security guards."

Ron Conte
1st February 2008, 04:21 PM
Could it be the unification of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Or Anglican Church?

No, it has to be something that has happened a few times in Church history.

Ron Conte
1st February 2008, 04:24 PM
Does anybody know what year that statement was made?

Also, remember that Pope John XXIII was beatified by Pope John Paul II in 2000, but I think that was certainly after Conchita made that statement.

Ron, I have to say that I still believe you are correct on the issue. I think there is a strong connection between Blessed Imelda Lambertini and Pope John Paul II. We all know of the first assassination attempt on May 13, 1981(May 13 being Blessed Imelda's feast day) but did you also know that the second attempt on his life was made on May 12, 1982 in Fatima, Portugal. (May 12 being the actual day that Blessed Imelda died) Also, didn't you say that the one of apparitions at Fatima began on May 13th? I still feel a strong connection.


About the second assassination attempt, from wikipedia- "Another assassination attempt took place on 12 May 1982, just a day before the anniversary of the last attempt on his life, in Fatima, Portugal when a man tried to stab John Paul II with a bayonet, but was stopped by security guards."

Good points.

I don't think that Mary said to Conchita the hint that it would be an event that has happened a few times, but not since Conchita was born; Mary would have no reason to give such a hint since she actually revealed the event itself directly to Conchita. This hint is something that Conchita thought up, and she may just have been mistaken in what she said; she is constrained from correcting the statement, if it was erroneous, because that would in effect reveal the event.

Paul Bellett
1st February 2008, 08:34 PM
Good points.

I don't think that Mary said to Conchita the hint that it would be an event that has happened a few times, but not since Conchita was born; Mary would have no reason to give such a hint since she actually revealed the event itself directly to Conchita. This hint is something that Conchita thought up, and she may just have been mistaken in what she said; she is constrained from correcting the statement, if it was erroneous, because that would in effect reveal the event.

Yes, this is not the only case that Conchita has said to 'fill in the blanks according to her perspective', to what Our Lady did told her not directly about.
Check out in several interviews that she gave on website :-
http://www.garabandalvideos.com/
Also she had no idea, about the actual duration of the Warning, since the Holy Virgin Mary did not reveal it to her! She simply said in the interview, a guess of "five minutes would be adequate" for the duration of the Warning.

Truthseeker
2nd February 2008, 08:49 AM
No, it has to be something that has happened a few times in Church history.

Could it be the assasination of Benedict VI the event that has happened a few times in Church History .St. John Bosco in one of his dreams says that after the assasination of the Pope who was leading the ship toward the two columns of The Eucharist and the Rosary, there is an immediate re election of the Pope that almost coincides with the news of the assasination of the Pope and then something unexpected happens that will destroy the enemies of the Church. Else I was also thinking about a third vatican council but am not sure if Concita was born already in the second vatican council. What do you think ?

Ron Conte
2nd February 2008, 11:57 AM
I don't think it is the martyrdom of a Pope because that has happened more than a few times in Church history.

I don't think it is a Council since Vatican II occurred during her lifetime. Also, it has to be something that can occur on one day.

Truthseeker
2nd February 2008, 01:18 PM
I don't think it is the martyrdom of a Pope because that has happened more than a few times in Church history.

I don't think it is a Council since Vatican II occurred during her lifetime. Also, it has to be something that can occur on one day.

St. John Bosco says in his dream that the election of the new pope after the assasination of the first one will be so fast that the news of the assasination and the news of the pope's reelection will almost be at the same time. Has this ever happened ? And has the Pope ever been elected in just one day or a couple of hours as the dream of St. John Bosco may suggest ?

Ron Conte
2nd February 2008, 02:12 PM
Could you give the exact quote as to what that Saint said. Thanks.

Truthseeker
2nd February 2008, 02:39 PM
Could you give the exact quote as to what that Saint said. Thanks.

THE PROPHETIC DREAM OF ST. JOHN BOSCO


In the midst of this endless sea, two solid columns, a short distance apart, soar high into the sky. One is surmounted by a statue of the Immaculate Virgin, at whose feet a large inscription reads Auxilium Christianorum (Help of Christians). The other, far loftier and sturdier, supports a Host of proportionate size, and bears beneath it the inscription Salus credentium (Salvation of believers).

The flagship commander -- the Roman Pontiff -- standing at the helm, strains every muscle to steer his ship between the two columns, from whose summits hang many anchors and strong hooks linked to chains. The entire enemy fleet closes in to intercept and sink the flagship at all costs. They bombard it with everything they have: books and pamphlets, incendiary bombs, firearms, cannons. The battle rages ever more furious. Beaked prows ram the flagship again and again, but to no avail, as unscathed and undaunted, it keeps on its course. At times, a formidable ram splinters a gaping hole in its hull, but immediately, a breeze from the two columns instantly seals the gash.

Meanwhile, enemy cannons blow up; firearms and beaks fall to pieces; ships crack up and sink to the bottom. In blind fury, the enemy takes to hand-to-hand combat, cursing and blaspheming. Suddenly the Pope falls, seriously wounded. He is instantly helped up, but struck a second time, dies. A shout of victory rises from the enemy, and wild rejoicing sweeps their ships. But no sooner is the Pope dead than another takes his place. The captains of the auxiliary ships elected him so quickly that the news of the Pope's death coincides with that of his successor's election. The enemy's self-assurance wanes.

Breaking through all resistance, the new Pope steers his ship safely between the two columns; first, to the one surmounted by the Host, and then the other, topped by the statue of the Virgin. At this point, something unexpected happens. The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other.

Some auxiliary ships, which had gallantly fought alongside their flagship, are the first to tie up at the two columns. Many others, which had fearfully kept far away from the fight, stand still, cautiously waiting until; the wrecked enemy ships vanish under the waves. Then they too head for the two columns, tie up at the swinging hooks and ride safe and tranquil beside their flagship. A great calm now covers the sea.

Ron Conte
2nd February 2008, 02:59 PM
Under the current rules for electing a new Pope and burying the previous Pope, and given modern means of communication, it would not be possible for a new Pope to be elected while the news of the former Pope's death was still going out, unless...

The Cardinals and Bishops were already convened in a Council or Synod, and the usual modern means of communication were severely disrupted.

And the event described would have to occur after the rules are changed for burying and for electing successive Popes.

Truthseeker
2nd February 2008, 03:04 PM
Under the current rules for electing a new Pope and burying the previous Pope, and given modern means of communication, it would not be possible for a new Pope to be elected while the news of the former Pope's death was still going out, unless...

The Cardinals and Bishops were already convened in a Council or Synod, and the usual modern means of communication were severely disrupted.

And the event described would have to occur after the rules are changed for burying and for electing successive Popes.

Well then it could be possible that this is the extraordinary event that n Concita was speaking about that did not occur in her life time yet. Well only time can give us the answer.

Truthseeker
2nd February 2008, 03:07 PM
By the way to be honest I think that the something unexpected thing St. John Bosco was talking about could be more a reference to the Warning rather than the miracle. Of course no one knows the future except God.

Climacus Areopagite
2nd February 2008, 05:36 PM
yeah Saint John Bosco's prophetic dreams are difficult to intrepret

Mary's Child
2nd February 2008, 08:38 PM
I have seen all of the footage of Garabandal (online) and the girls were walking backwards in an "unusual" and "unnatural" and quite "eerie" way. Basing myself on what you say, Ron, this seems to be a red flag for a noncredible visionary.

My other concern is about the Warning. In about a year (Next Tridiuum), you predict that the warning will come. You mention that everyone will be looking for Catholics to help them through this. Yet, you also say that there will be a great apostosy soon after.

If the warning will help non-Catholics reach out to Catholics, why will Catholics not feel compelled to see the error of their ways? You mentioned that gays, homosexuals and their advocates will leave the Church because of the new pope's cleansing of the clergy. Won't Catholics remember the Warning and wouldn't the gay acts be part of what needs to stop and be atoned?

Your thoughts would be helpful as I grapple with these questions.

Thanks and God Bless,

Mary's Child

daytonafreak
2nd February 2008, 11:40 PM
Is it possible for a someone to bypass the beatification process entirely and just go straight to being canonized a saint? maybe this is it.

Ron Conte
3rd February 2008, 12:42 AM
Is it possible for a someone to bypass the beatification process entirely and just go straight to being canonized a saint? maybe this is it.

It is possible. In past centuries a man or woman could be canonized directly. Under the present rules it is not possible.

Ron Conte
3rd February 2008, 12:47 AM
I have seen all of the footage of Garabandal (online) and the girls were walking backwards in an "unusual" and "unnatural" and quite "eerie" way. Basing myself on what you say, Ron, this seems to be a red flag for a noncredible visionary.
I would judge a claimed private revelation mainly on the content of the messages, which in the case of Garabandal does not have any of the usual indications of falsehood. There were some unusual signs at Garabandal, but one cannot expect God to behave in an entirely predictable manner.

My other concern is about the Warning. In about a year (Next Tridiuum), you predict that the warning will come. You mention that everyone will be looking for Catholics to help them through this. Yet, you also say that there will be a great apostosy soon after.
Some persons will reject the Warning. Others will accept it, but will soon relapse into their former sins, or into even worse sins.

If the warning will help non-Catholics reach out to Catholics, why will Catholics not feel compelled to see the error of their ways? You mentioned that gays, homosexuals and their advocates will leave the Church because of the new pope's cleansing of the clergy. Won't Catholics remember the Warning and wouldn't the gay acts be part of what needs to stop and be atoned?
That's not quite what I said. But what happens is that the Warning is a call to repentance, but it is not the single ultimate remedy for the whole world. There is still freewill and the warning does not take away free will, nor does it solve every problem. There are so many serious sins among Catholics as well as in the world as a whole, that it takes a long time to bring the world to peace and holiness.

St. Thomas More
3rd February 2008, 06:10 PM
THE PROPHETIC DREAM OF ST. JOHN BOSCO


But no sooner is the Pope dead than another takes his place. The captains of the auxiliary ships elected him so quickly that the news of the Pope's death coincides with that of his successor's election.

Note that this is premised upon "THE NEWS" of the Pope's death coinciding w/that of the election. So, it could be that the Vatican does not release information of the Pope's death because it does not want the world to know that the ship is proceeding without its Admiral. The Vatican quickly convenes the College of Cardinals to elect a successor because of the urgent circumstances and without letting the world know that the Vatican is or was temporarily without a Vicar of Christ.

JuanLuis
4th February 2008, 07:23 PM
Agnus Dei,
qui tollis peccata mundi: miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei,
qui tollis peccata mundi: miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei,
qui tollis peccata mundi: dona nobis pacem.
Amen.

myLivingBread
4th February 2008, 11:58 PM
my PC hardisk collapsed , I'm having a hard time typing with this borrowed Comp. it only runs few minutes then shut down.

I thinking on John Bosco dream referring to Peter the Roman because he died in a foreign land , so the college of Cardinals start electing his sucessor out of urgency.

Ron Conte
5th February 2008, 01:21 AM
my PC hardisk collapsed , I'm having a hard time typing with this borrowed Comp. it only runs few minutes then shut down.

I thinking on John Bosco dream referring to Peter the Roman because he died in a foreign land , so the college of Cardinals start electing his sucessor out of urgency.

Paul Bellett
5th February 2008, 06:05 AM
While we are on this same topic, would you think it is plausible, that this is the same Pope which is outlined in the Third Secret of Fatima as referring to Peter the Roman (Pope Pius XIII)?

Ron Conte
5th February 2008, 12:16 PM
Peter the Roman is the Pope martyred in the secret of Fatima.

[The Pope mentioned by St. john bosco is a later Pope.]

Truthseeker
6th February 2008, 11:47 AM
But according to St. John Bosco's dream after the new pope is re elected the enemies of the church are scattered and a great calm reigns in the sea therefore I don't think it was a reference to Peter the Roman what do you think ? Also my question is this: Will all the visionaries in Medjugorje have received all their secrets before the warning ?

Paul Bellett
6th February 2008, 06:04 PM
The dream could be referring to the enemies of the church are scattered such as heretics, and any other group of people that are willing to undermine Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium related to the church, so that a reminent of the faithful will follow a True Pope [great calm reigns in the sea], and the enemies will follow a prominent Antipope therefore creating a schism. (which Ron has referred to in an earlier thread).

Ron Conte
6th February 2008, 06:33 PM
I think that the scattering of the enemies does not occur on the election of the new Pope, but a short time later. The new Pope is elected, non-canonically; the antipope is elected because they take advantage of the ability to elect a Pope away from Rome and without the usual rules. Then both men go to Rome to bolster each one's claim to be the true Pope.

Then Rome is struck by a nuclear missile, thereby ending the schism.

Ken
7th February 2008, 07:01 PM
I don't think it is the martyrdom of a Pope because that has happened more than a few times in Church history.

I don't think it is a Council since Vatican II occurred during her lifetime. Also, it has to be something that can occur on one day.

More Popes have been martyred than canonized?

Ron Conte
7th February 2008, 08:08 PM
More Popes have been martyred than canonized?

I never considered that question before, but I think so.

It is said that the first 33 Popes were martyred (although we cannot be certain since we do not have much information on the lives and reigns of a number of early Popes).

I'm not sure how many Popes have been martyred and how many canonized.

Climacus Areopagite
7th February 2008, 08:24 PM
maybe she meant it in a relative way since the only two Popes to have been canonized in the past 500 years were Saint Pius V and Pius X.

Climacus Areopagite
7th February 2008, 08:56 PM
what about an infallible teaching made by the Pope alone? This seems like a rare occurence in Church history, most are from ecunemical councils. (if not forgive I am not well versed in Magisterium)

Climacus Areopagite
7th February 2008, 09:09 PM
maybe an infallible teaching made by the Pope alone concerning the Eucharist?

Ken
7th February 2008, 09:50 PM
I never considered that question before, but I think so.

It is said that the first 33 Popes were martyred (although we cannot be certain since we do not have much information on the lives and reigns of a number of early Popes).

I'm not sure how many Popes have been martyred and how many canonized.

http://biblia.com/christianity/popes.htm

There have been 78 canonized popes in the history of the Church, and 9 others who are currently blessed. This gives a total of 87 canonized or blessed , or a percentage of about 32 percent. The most recent members of this group are: The Popes and Sanctity

32% of the Popes Saints!... this gives the Office of the Pope the highest percentage of Sanctity of any profession.

Ron Conte
8th February 2008, 12:54 AM
I didn't realize that many Popes had been canonized.
There may be more canonized Popes than martyred Popes.

the Assumption was defined in 1950 and Conchita was born before that I think. (When did we say she was born?).

Paul Bellett
8th February 2008, 05:51 AM
On the catholicplanet.com website there is reference to her being born in 1949.

Ron Conte
20th March 2008, 01:16 AM
I have seen all of the footage of Garabandal (online) and the girls were walking backwards in an "unusual" and "unnatural" and quite "eerie" way. Basing myself on what you say, Ron, this seems to be a red flag for a noncredible visionary.

Just because something is unusual does not mean it is a false private revelation. Generally-speaking, false private revelations have teachings that are contrary to Church teaching. What you are saying is not based on anything I have said.