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Archangel Michael
5th February 2009, 03:16 PM
-- deleted by the administrator --

VKallin
5th February 2009, 05:36 PM
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Ron Conte
5th February 2009, 05:42 PM
I have been repeatedly dismayed by how readily some members of this group accept whatever claims are made on the subject of religion, without any discernment. It is a problem that some members feel free to promote such doubtful claims in this group, and it is also a problem that some members will believe whatever is claimed.

From now on, members may NOT promote any claimed messages, visions, supernatural experiences, healing abilities, near death/after life experiences, or anything similar, without checking with me first by PM (private message).

Please be more discerning about what you believe.

Even when I myself offer some thoughts from speculative theology in this discussion group, the members of this group should be discerning, and not treat every idea or claim as if it had the same weight as the doctrines of the Catholic Faith have.

Ron Conte
5th February 2009, 10:32 PM
Concerning Bill Weise's claim to have visited Hell:

his story is not credible because there are numerous heretical claims in his description of Hell.

1. he makes the false claim that fallen angels (demons) have bodies.

Catholic teaching is that angels are spirit only, with no bodies.

2. he claims that 'But in Hell, your life is run by demons.' And he claims: 'So I was absolutely at their mercy, which they don't have any mercy. The Demons run your life in Hell.'

This is contrary to Catholic teaching that Hell is a place where both fallen angels and some human persons are punished by God. Thus God is in control of Hell, and no one suffers in Hell any more or less than they deserve. See the teaching of the Council of Florence on the degree of punishment in Hell. Even in Hell, the punishments are both just and merciful. But Weise makes the heretical claim that we are punished by demons in Hell and without mercy.

3. he claims that 'These creatures have a zero IQ, absolute ignorant creatures.'

4. he claims that God made manking the highest form of nature.

Whereas Catholic teaching is that angels have a high intellect, and have a nature which is greater than human nature. Thus it is said in Scripture that Christ in becoming human was made less than the angels. (Ps 8:6)

5. he describes Hell as if the demons (fallen angels) are not being punished there, in contradiction to the words of Christ Jesus:

"Then he shall also say, to those who will be on his left: ‘Depart from me, you accursed ones, into the eternal fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels." (Mt 25:41).

6. he describes Hell as if the persons there continue to commit mortal sin after mortal sin against God: "And they were blaspheming God. The whole time they were cursing God."

But Catholic teaching is that Hell is a punishment for sin, not a place for even more sins to be committed continually.

7. he states that God's Mercy and Faithfulness do not reach to Hell, which he presents as controled by the devil and NOT by God: "There is only mercy in Heaven. Mercy comes from God, and the devil has no knowledge of any kind of mercy, he is totally against that.... It is defiantly [i.e. definitely] not in Hell."

Catholic teaching is that God is all powerful and that Hell is a place where the devil and his fallen angels are punished justly and mercifully.

This man's teaching on Hell is filled with heresy after heresy.

See these threads on Hell and Catholic teaching:

http://catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1343
http://catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2159
http://catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1732

daytonafreak
5th February 2009, 11:22 PM
Ron, in the first link that you gave you stated that:

"Many persons in Hell may well also have some sins from which they repented in life, but for which they did not complete the temporal punishment due. They cannot go to Purgatory to atone for this punishment. So they suffer in Hell for the temporal punishment due. But then the punishment for those repented sins ends. So their suffering decreases at that point in time."

Do you mean here that the person must also have one or more mortal sins from which they refused to repent of? How else could they go to Hell?
If they repented from all mortal sin but did not satisfy the temporal punishment due then wouldn't they go to Purgatory?

Ron Conte
5th February 2009, 11:42 PM
Ron, in the first link that you gave you stated that:

"Many persons in Hell may well also have some sins from which they repented in life, but for which they did not complete the temporal punishment due. They cannot go to Purgatory to atone for this punishment. So they suffer in Hell for the temporal punishment due. But then the punishment for those repented sins ends. So their suffering decreases at that point in time."

Do you mean here that the person must also have one or more mortal sins from which they refused to repent of? How else could they go to Hell?
If they repented from all mortal sin but did not satisfy the temporal punishment due then wouldn't they go to Purgatory?

Yes, I'm referring to the situation where they were sent to Hell for one or more unrepented actual mortal sins, AND they have some sins, mortal or venial, for which they repented but did not do penance.