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View Full Version : Is Dec. 21, 2012 important in eschatology?

Ron Conte
10th October 2009, 10:11 PM
No. There is no support in any eschatological writings of the Saints, Blessed, mystics, stigmatics, Fathers, and Doctors of the Church for any type of eschatological event on December 21th of 2012.

The date comes from the Mayan calendar. This useful article:,2933,563621,00.html?test=latestnews
explains that even the Mayans did not expect anything apocalyptic to happen on that day. And there are Mayan artifacts with Mayan calendar dates beyond that day -- so it is not the last day in their calendar, as is commonly claimed.

In my own eschatology, I find that the period of time from early 2010 to early 2040 is the first part of the tribulation, followed by a brief time of peace lasting about 25 years, followed by a few centuries of increasing sinfulness in the world, followed by the second part of the tribulation, and many other events thereafter. Although 2012 occurs during the first part of the tribulation, the date of Dec. 21 has no significance in Christian eschatology. The worst part of the tribulation is the second part, in the distant future, and the worst of the first part of the tribulation is in the 2030's to early 2040.

Some foolish persons have tried to use this date in the Mayan calendar, combined rather loosely with some ideas from Christian eschatology, to build a series of claims about the near future. I have found no credible set of claims of this type; all depart from sound eschatology based on Scripture and on the writings of holy persons throughout the history of the Church.

There is a movie due out soon which sensationalizes this date of 2012. It is a work of fiction, nothing else.

11th October 2009, 02:23 AM
Part of their marketing scheme for this movie is the Institute of Human Continuity commercials on TV and the web. You can actually join the lottery to win a spot in the "post 2012 world."

Check out the site, but I wouldn't register or anything...

Ron Conte
21st October 2009, 03:09 PM
Dr. Edwin Barnhart, Director of the Maya Exploration Center
interviewed by Fox News on the show "America's Newsroom"
on 10-21-2009

"This is really an idea that's coming out of the Western world. Of the thousands of ancient Mayan text we have, none of them say that this is going to be the end of the world. This is an important anniversary in their calendar, but no text tells us that they think it's the end of the world."

21st October 2009, 03:18 PM
Ron, could it be possible for 9 planets in our galaxy from Mercury to Pluto to be in one parallel horizontal line?

Ron Conte
21st October 2009, 03:31 PM

Ask An Astrobiologist, at

Is it true that the Sun will be in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy in December 2012 and that this will cause a pole shift and massive destruction.

No, this is an Internet hoax, with no basis in fact. There is no alignment of planets or of the Sun with the Galaxy. As far as being in the center of the Galaxy, this is impossible; we are slowly orbiting the galactic center at a distance of about 30,000 light years. The idea of a “pole shift” is also unfounded. Most people seem to mean a rapid change in the rotational pole of the Earth, but this is something that has never happened and never will. Some people are confusing this with the reversal of the magnetic poles on Earth, which does take place regularly, every few hundred thousand years. But there is no evidence that this might happen soon, and even if it did, the magnetic shift would be gradual and there would probably be no consequences on the planet, certainly nothing catastrophic.


When most of the planets align in 2012 and planet earth is in the center of the milky way,what will the effects of this be on planet earth? could it cause a pole shift,if so what could we expect.

There is no planet alignment in 2012 or any other time in the next several decades. As to the Earth being in the center of the Milky Way, I don't know what this phrase means, If you are referring to the Milky Way Galaxy, we are rather far toward the edge of this spiral galaxy, some 30,000 light years from the center. Concerning a polar shift, I also don't know what this means. If it means some sudden change in the position of the pole (that is, the rotation axis of the Earth), then that is impossible. There is no point in speculating about the consequences of something that has never happened and never will. Before geologists discovered the role of plate tectonics (about 60 years ago), there was some speculation that a polar shift was involved in transforming the Antarctic, for example, from a warm to a cold climate, but now we know it was the Antarctic continent that moved, not the rotation pole. The bottom line is that there is no possibility of a "polar shift" and no danger associated with one.

David Morrison
NAI Senior Scientist
May 14, 2008


21st October 2009, 05:48 PM
Ok, thanks so much for the answer Ron, and I'm sorry if my question is outside our topic, I think I watch science fiction films too much... :???:

21st October 2009, 10:55 PM
The Warning and Miracle will shock and surprise those who believe this stuff.

22nd October 2009, 04:17 PM
I think the movie 2012 will be just a pop corn movie.

Jeanne D'Arc
22nd October 2009, 05:22 PM
I just read this from Inside the Vatican Newsletter . Malachy's last pope, PETER???

A Chance Meeting

An ordinary Wednesday in Rome

By Robert Moynihan, reporting from Rome


Midnight Oil

The Pope's light was burning late tonight.

In fact, in all the years of his pontificate, since the spring of 2005 after his election, his custom has been to keep his light on until about 11 pm. Then the window goes dark. Sometimes it is a little before 11, sometimes a little after.

But this evening, it was still burning at 11:15, at 11:30, at 11:45, and at 12 midnight. I don't know if it was on any longer, because midnight was when I glanced up at the Apostolic Palace for the last time before calling it a day myself and heading back here to write. The light was still on as I turned and walked away.

Is the Pope working late?

Or did someone forget to turn off the light?

I don't know -- I only know that the light stayed on much longer than usual.


The Next Pope?

This evening I was invited to dine, along with a dozen other journalists, with Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, 61, the Archbishop of Cape Coast in Ghana, in West Africa.

Turkson is not just any cardinal.

He is the youngest African cardinal.

And, as the "Relator," or General Secretary, of the Synod on Africa currently taking place in Rome, he is unquestionably one of the "top" African cardinals (as he is often termed in the press).

Indeed, some have gone so far as to speculate that Turkson may become... the first African Pope. (See:

At an October 5 press conference to open the Synod, Turkson was asked whether he thought the time was right for a black Pope, particularly following the election of President Barack Obama.

Turkson replied: "Why not?"

He argued that every man who agrees to be ordained a priest has to be willing to be a Pope.

He noted that, with Obama and the previous U.N. secretary-general, Kofi Annan, there have been several blacks in positions of global leadership.

He said, "If God would wish to see a black man also as Pope, thanks be to God."

And his words put him in the headlines around the world.


14th November 2009, 10:21 PM
I've known about the 2012 prophecies for many years but I now after seeing the trailer to this movie and the reviews and the many anti-Christian themes, I have come to the conclusion that this is the work of the devil with a last attempt to mislead people and take their focus on God and Christianity. I liken the prophecies of 2012 to witchcraft, astrology, psychics etc, all clearly anti-Christian. I also consider this to be equal to a false prophet as warned about in the bible.

Many people are starting to talk about this prophecy as if it is Gospel and seem to be putting their faith in it. I know the weak will trust in this garbage.

I find it very prophetic that it is coming out at this moment, only 4.5 months away from Ron's prediction.

Ron, do you see this as I do?

Ron Conte
14th November 2009, 11:54 PM
I would not give that much emphasis to the 2012 false predictions. There are similar false predictions, from time to time, continually. Recall that some persons were saying that the world might end in 2000. And there was the claim that the Y2K error would be disasterous; I know of a false apparition that claimed that Y2K would cause a disaster associated with the end of the world (Dory Tan in Canada). There was a group claiming that Jesus would return in the mid 1980's.

Perhaps the increase in true private revelations in recent decades, along with a large increase in false private revelations, has contributed to people being overly influenced by the 2012 claims.

15th November 2009, 03:06 AM
I agree with what you say about the 2012 predictions and the Mayan Calendar.

I was talking more about the devil's use of Hollywood releasing a world-wide movie that attacks Christianity while contributing on a global scale to promoting a false phrophecy.

I thought the same about the Davinci Code. There were many people, in my personal life, that after seeing this Fairy Tale, quoted it like it was actual Historical Fact.

The damage of that movie lives on today.

Evil certainly had a hand in that movie and its movie makers the same as 2012 the movie, I feel.

Ron Conte
15th November 2009, 11:19 AM
From what I've heard, there is not much that is Anti-Catholic in the movie 2012. There is a great deal of senseless destruction, including of Christian landmarks. But I've not heard of anything else.

But the Dan Brown books and movies are thoroughly contrary to the Catholic Christian Faith. They literally blaspheme Jesus by claiming that he married Mary Magdalene and they blaspheme the Catholic Faith with many false and injurious claims. I would not be surpised if there was demonic influence acting on Dan Brown and his wife to encourage them in this harm.

But fallen angels do not control the events of human history; they are not permitted to do so. They only have influence. So a movie or a book, no matter how sinful, is not the work of devils, but of human persons, perhaps with some influence from devils.

Even when, in the distant future, the Antichrist takes power over nearly the whole world, his kingdom is the work of human persons influenced and assisted by devils; it is not the work of devils assisted by humans. God does not permit the devils to have excessive influence, nor to take control, of human events.

15th November 2009, 04:03 PM
It is revealing that Dan Brown's latest book is an apology of Freemasonry, though. This institution which has esoteric influences, is maybe one of the most anti-christian institutions ever. By the way, several famous occultists were also freemasons (Aleister Crowley, for instance).

In my humble opinion, several of the current anti-christian worldwide campaigns (spread of abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage laws) might be promoted by them. It is known their influence in some UN institutions as the population fund and on the European Union Parliament.

Ron, have you something to comment on the influence of Freemasonry on christian persecution and the great tribulation?

Ron Conte
15th November 2009, 04:58 PM
Ron, have you something to comment on the influence of Freemasonry on christian persecution and the great tribulation?

masonry or freemasonry can be considered in two ways:

1. literally

In the present time, the organization has very little power and influence. Historically, they did have some substantial influence for a limited period of time, but that time has long passed. The organization is still evil, but they have little power.

2. figuratively

A mason is someone who cuts and shapes stones for buildings. A freemason is a mason who travels more widely to do the same. So as a figure of speech, masons are those persons who try to change the building stones of the Church, which is Her teachings, locally (in their own lives and in the lives of the persons around them). And freemasons are those persons who try to do the same more broadly, even in parishes, dioceses, and in the Church as a whole. They will not succeed in causing the Church to change Her teachings, but they have succeeded in harming many souls. But these persons are figurative masons and figurative freemasons. I am not here referring to actual members of that organization.

In some false private revelations, the messages contain exaggerated warnings of the power of literal masons and freemasons.

In some true private revelations, the Virgin Mary uses the term masons or freemasons figuratively, NOT literally.