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Shane
20th October 2009, 11:45 PM
Some commotion has been happening here recently with various alleged phenomena regarding Our Lady, including an alleged miracle of the sun at Knock last Sunday week.

Have a look at this article, and then read the letter below. Puts it all into perspective.

http://www.spiritdaily.com/irishoutbreak.htm


(letter)
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7940&Itemid=40#

Paul Bellett
21st October 2009, 09:26 AM
(letter)
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7940&Itemid=40#

Excellent letter Shane, to the newspaper editor by that South Mayo resident.
I can certainly relate to it, having been to a 3pm healing mass at Knock myself.

God bless

Paul

Shane
30th October 2009, 04:30 AM
Unfortunately, it's becoming all too clear at this point that the latest spate of 'apparitions' at Knock are false. This latest 'message' is riddled with errors (no prizes for spotting them):

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2009/1028/1224257549789.html

It is worrying because people may remember Knock for these fraudulent apparitions than for the true 1879 apparition. The Archbishop of Tuam has issued a statement refuting the apparitions, but this is being ignored. I hope it is cleared up before the Warning and Miracle.


Shane

TheGiftOfLife
30th October 2009, 05:43 AM
If thousands were there witnessing this, I thought that someone might have videoed it and put it on you tube.

I was correct. There are 3 postings and nothing that I see to be even remotely strange other than a child screaming relentlessly


Here are the links:


[links removed by Admin.]

Ron Conte
30th October 2009, 06:51 AM
I've removed the links to the YouTube videos on the claimed extraordinary phenomena at Knock. In my opinion, Shane is correct that the apparitions of Mary at Knock in 1879 are true, but the recent phenomena are false. This kind of 'lights and clouds' phenomena is associated with many of the false private revelations that I've reviewed. Do not be led astray by videos of lights in the sky, as this type of 'sign' can easily be caused by fallen angels.

I've added Joe Coleman to my list of false private revelations.

TheGiftOfLife
30th October 2009, 08:09 AM
Sure Ron, whatever you think is best, but that was my point, that there was nothing in the videos.

But since you mentioned it. There are many videos of the sun spinning like a dinner plate on its side and flashing at Medjugorje and Garabandal exactly the way it was described at Fatima in The Miracle of the Sun. I quote, ":... the sun was spinning in the sku like a disc...(fatima 1917). Why would God perform a Miracle that can so easily be duplicated by fallen angels. I would like to know more about how you derive the critera as to what a Fallen Angel can and cannot do.

ExCelciuS
30th October 2009, 11:24 AM
Sure Ron, whatever you think is best, but that was my point, that there was nothing in the videos.

But since you mentioned it. There are many videos of the sun spinning like a dinner plate on its side and flashing at Medjugorje and Garabandal exactly the way it was described at Fatima in The Miracle of the Sun. I quote, ":... the sun was spinning in the sku like a disc...(fatima 1917). Why would God perform a Miracle that can so easily be duplicated by fallen angels. I would like to know more about how you derive the critera as to what a Fallen Angel can and cannot do.

Good question. And to focus it more, I would like to add this question, how we can differentiate an extraordinary(a lesser miracle, since Ron said that miracles is only can be done by God alone) things is caused by holy angel or fallen angel? Since God sometimes also permit fallen angel to do extraordinary things, so how we can differentiate it?

And how we can know if a miracle happen? For example, like when Moses split the sea, is that a miracle? or that was just an extraordinary things that angels and fallen angels can do? How we can categorize something extraordinary, unnatural things into a miracle?

Ron Conte
30th October 2009, 01:15 PM
true miracles are supernatural, they are performed by God beyond what is natural (creation).

false miracles are preternatural, they are performed by fallen angels using their natural abilities; they deceive human persons into thinking that a miracle is occuring

some false miracles are performed by human persons using deception

[Matthew]
{24:24} For there will arise false Christs and false prophets. And they will produce great signs and wonders, so much so as to lead into error even the elect (if this could be).
{24:25} Behold, I have warned you beforehand.

This article explains false signs from fallen angels:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false-private-revelations.htm

Fallen angels can deceive some people into believing almost anything. God is not required to omit acts that fall into the category of miracles that can be imitated by fallen angels. Why should He do less for us than He wishes?

True private revelation becomes clear through the doctrine being taught, not through the signs and wonders. We can distinguish true miracles from false by doctrine, not by the signs themselves.

When Moses split the sea, that was actually God splitting the sea. Perhaps fallen angels could do something similar. When Moses gave signs to Pharoah, his magicians could imitate some of those miracles. But we know that Moses was giving true signs by doctrine, such as the Ten Commandments given to Moses.

ExCelciuS
30th October 2009, 02:40 PM
Woah..., what a huge article.., but the end part is good.

[Galatians]
{1:6} I wonder that you have been so quickly transferred, from him who called you into the grace of Christ, over to another gospel.
{1:7} For there is no other, except that there are some persons who disturb you and who want to overturn the Gospel of Christ.

Thanks Ron.

Brother
30th October 2009, 05:20 PM
Thank you Ron for your important service to the faithful regarding this issue.

Ron Conte
4th November 2009, 12:29 PM
More about the recent false apparitions and false messages at Knock:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1103/1224257963765.html

Again, the apparitions there in the 1800's are true, but the recent claimed apparitions and messages are false.

The messages supposedly have Mary saying: "I am so happy. I smile on this day, 31st October 2009, at my beloved Knock.

But Mary is in Heaven, so she is not alternately happy or unhappy. She is not happy and smiling only on one particular day. This is not the way that Mary speaks in true private revelation, focusing on herself: I am happy... I am smiling.

"I wish to thank all the people who came today to pray, to give thanks to my beloved father God the Almighty."

There is a subtle error here also. The correct term would be God the Father, not my father God the Almighty. Since God is Three Persons, one of whom is her Son, and another of whom is her Spouse, she would not call God the Almighty (i.e. the Trinity) her father. She would have said either God the Almighty, or God the Father, not father God the Almighty.

"I will visit one day soon on the fifth day of the holy month."

I doesn't make sense to say soon, but then to give the exact date. Also, December is not called 'the holy month'. The Catholic liturgical calendar does not have holy months.

"I love all my children unconditionally with my immaculate heart, especially all my priests who are not listening to my call."

Again, there are subtle errors here. It does not make sense to say that Mary especially loves those who are rejecting her call, since this would imply that they are rejecting the grace and love of God. Certainly, God and Mary love even great sinners, but it is not as if they love more when we sin more.

The phrasing 'I love ... unconditionally with my immaculate heart' is an odd phrasing. The Immaculate Heart of Mary is a figure representing her whole being, her total purity (not only the purity of her heart) and her total will and mind, body and soul. So she does not love with her heart, she is her immaculate heart. It represents all that she is, body and soul.

Truthseeker
26th February 2010, 03:01 PM
true miracles are supernatural, they are performed by God beyond what is natural (creation).

false miracles are preternatural, they are performed by fallen angels using their natural abilities; they deceive human persons into thinking that a miracle is occuring

some false miracles are performed by human persons using deception

[Matthew]
{24:24} For there will arise false Christs and false prophets. And they will produce great signs and wonders, so much so as to lead into error even the elect (if this could be).
{24:25} Behold, I have warned you beforehand.

This article explains false signs from fallen angels:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false-private-revelations.htm

Fallen angels can deceive some people into believing almost anything. God is not required to omit acts that fall into the category of miracles that can be imitated by fallen angels. Why should He do less for us than He wishes?

True private revelation becomes clear through the doctrine being taught, not through the signs and wonders. We can distinguish true miracles from false by doctrine, not by the signs themselves.

When Moses split the sea, that was actually God splitting the sea. Perhaps fallen angels could do something similar. When Moses gave signs to Pharoah, his magicians could imitate some of those miracles. But we know that Moses was giving true signs by doctrine, such as the Ten Commandments given to Moses.

Ron I was wondering today if some false prophets will be converted after the warning and if this happens will these places of prayer be transformed in something good. I mean there may be some good prayer going on but false messages. I know that this might be the case from my personal experience of several visits at Achill some yers ago. I was impressed by the prayer going on there but I always suspected the messages were not coming from Our Lady. I in fact decided not to keep following this place after I became a member of catholicplanet. However the way the rosary is prayed there (slowly and with big devotion) has always impressed me and I found this in no other place.

Ron Conte
26th February 2010, 03:08 PM
Ron I was wondering today if some false prophets will be converted after the warning and if this happens will these places of prayer be transformed in something good. I mean there may be some good prayer going on but false messages. I know that this might be the case from my personal experience of several visits at Achill some yers ago. I was impressed by the prayer going on there but I always suspected the messages were not coming from Our Lady. I in fact decided not to keep following this place after I became a member of catholicplanet. However the way the rosary is prayed there (slowly and with big devotion) has always impressed me and I found this in no other place.

God gives grace to whomever is willing to accept it, even to persons praying at a place of false private revelation. Some false prophets might be converted, and therefore would stop promoting their false messages. The places might be taken over by a diocese and turned into a legitimate site of prayer. But the physical location is not what is important.

Truthseeker
26th February 2010, 03:15 PM
God gives grace to whomever is willing to accept it, even to persons praying at a place of false private revelation. Some false prophets might be converted, and therefore would stop promoting their false messages. The places might be taken over by a diocese and turned into a legitimate site of prayer. But the physical location is not what is important.

I wish this to happen in Achill cause I know many people who genuily love our lady and God over there

garabandalg
26th February 2010, 06:33 PM
Good, if God wills it, can come from evil, and so it may be with some of these sites.