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tapinu33
26th May 2012, 01:42 PM
Ron could you or anyone else throw some light on my concerns over the medjugorje visionaries. I have always believed in these apparitions but there is one thing that always nags at me and that is the dress code of the female visionaries. They wear jeans, pants, cap sleeved t-shirts and it looks to me like Mirjana colors her hair to be blonde. I think that if Our Lady does not guide the seers to modesty and against vanity, then we must be Ok to wear jeans and dye our hair? Vicka in particular does not dress with femininity. Please help me get past this.
Thank you and God Bless.

Ron Conte
26th May 2012, 01:56 PM
Ron could you or anyone else throw some light on my concerns over the medjugorje visionaries. I have always believed in these apparitions but there is one thing that always nags at me and that is the dress code of the female visionaries. They wear jeans, pants, cap sleeved t-shirts and it looks to me like Mirjana colors her hair to be blonde. I think that if Our Lady does not guide the seers to modesty and against vanity, then we must be Ok to wear jeans and dye our hair? Vicka in particular does not dress with femininity. Please help me get past this.
Thank you and God Bless.

All visionaries and all the faithful on earth are sinners. It is never legitimate to claim that a private revelation is false based on the sins or imperfections of visionaries. Peter denied Christ, and yet he became the first Pope. Paul (as Saul) participated in the murder of Saint Stephen. And yet he is a great Apostle and an author of Scripture.

But your complaint is that the visionaries don't dress the way you wish them to dress? This is an imperfection, at most, with some exaggeration, we could classify it as a venial sin. How does this effect the claim of visions from God? Not at all. Saul/Paul received a vision from God when he was on the road to Damascus to take Christians into custody, so that they could be imprisoned and/or put to death.

In addition, let me just say that some of your complaints about the way they groom themselves are not even imperfections. A woman can choose from a variety of different styles of clothing, or can dye her hair, without such things indicating vanity or other sins.

It is not the role of the Virgin Mary, when she appears in visions, to remove imperfections and venial sins from the visionaries. Rather, she appears in order to address all the faithful. She does not appear for the personal benefit and correction of the visionaries.

tapinu33
26th May 2012, 02:47 PM
All visionaries and all the faithful on earth are sinners. It is never legitimate to claim that a private revelation is false based on the sins or imperfections of visionaries. Peter denied Christ, and yet he became the first Pope. Paul (as Saul) participated in the murder of Saint Stephen. And yet he is a great Apostle and an author of Scripture.

But your complaint is that the visionaries don't dress the way you wish them to dress? This is an imperfection, at most, with some exaggeration, we could classify it as a venial sin. How does this effect the claim of visions from God? Not at all. Saul/Paul received a vision from God when he was on the road to Damascus to take Christians into custody, so that they could be imprisoned and/or put to death.

In addition, let me just say that some of your complaints about the way they groom themselves are not even imperfections. A woman can choose from a variety of different styles of clothing, or can dye her hair, without such things indicating vanity or other sins.

It is not the role of the Virgin Mary, when she appears in visions, to remove imperfections and venial sins from the visionaries. Rather, she appears in order to address all the faithful. She does not appear for the personal benefit and correction of the visionaries.

Thank you Ron for your response. I used to always wear jeans as I have horses and wearing skirts is challenging when working with horses. It is more for practicality than vanity. Dying my hair is vanity, I don't know of any other reason, I am 45 with still 2 toddlers to grow up and am 95% grey. I want to look like their mother not their grandmother!
I battle with this issue daily. I never had a problem with wearing pants or jeans until I read your article a few years ago on How Catholic women should dress.. QUOTE:
Saint Padre Pio use to refuse to hear the confession of women who were wearing pants or an immodest dress.

Women should not dress or act like men, for this is an abomination in God's eyes. God created the human race with two genders, intending each to have his and her proper place in Creation. Men and women are not meant to behave or dress the same manner. Part of the beauty of the human race is found in the differences between men and women.

We each live within a larger society. We are each influenced by the culture around us. Yet society and culture often teach us false things, which lead us away from God. Most women (at least in Western society and culture) dress and act very much like men. They seek the same roles in society, the family, and the Church. They are following a popular teaching of our culture today, that women and men are meant to have the same roles, and especially that women are meant to take up roles formerly held only or mainly by men. They are displaying their adherence to this teaching by dressing like men. This teaching of our culture is contrary to the teaching of Christ.

God wants men and women to act and dress according to their gender and the place God has given each one in Creation. Clothing and hairstyles are expressions of one's thoughts, behavior, and attitude. Women are not mean to behave like men, nor to have the same roles as men, therefore they should not dress or groom themselves like men. And vise versa.

This was life changing for me. So when I see the visionaries in ecstasy in jeans I wonder why the BVM does not address this. If they showed up in a mini skirt and low cut top there would be many questions so where do we draw the line?
Is it a sin for me to wear jeans and dye my hair? I am confused. I value your input greatly.
God Bless

garabandalg
26th May 2012, 04:50 PM
I find this thread interesting. It appears to me that while God does not want us to attend Mass half-naked or looking like we just got off a mud field, wearing a tuxedo while in mortal sin does not appear to be the answer either.

From Scripture, it appears that if John The Baptist entered our churches during Mass, police might be called, yet there would be no person in that church closer to God.

I think we need to dress up for God inside first and then, try our best to look our best within the parameters of our economic and practical situations as we can. What makes us a good Catholic has little, if anything, to do with how we dress on the outside but very much, if not all, about to do with how we dress our souls. Just my two cents.

tapinu33
26th May 2012, 07:44 PM
I think we need to dress up for God inside first and then, try our best to look our best within the parameters of our economic and practical situations as we can. What makes us a good Catholic has little, if anything, to do with how we dress on the outside but very much, if not all, about to do with how we dress our souls. Just my two cents.

Thanks Garabandalg, I agree with your comments. One issue is that a woman wearing jeans and a t-shirt can be the cause of a man to sin as she is showing off her curves and legs etc I do not dress to attract others but I dress for comfort and practicality. Long skirts are not always practical. My 19 yr old daughter for example wears fitted pants for Church and I try to explain to her that the married man sitting behind her at Church may find his eyes wandering to her physique and then causing him to not focus on The Mass. It causes him to sin and maybe hurt the feelings of his wife. If she wore a long skirt and loose top it reduces the risk for others to sin.
I worry when I wear pants and jeans that I am offending God but my lifestyle is easier when I wear pants etc. This is my predicament, I need to put myself at peace with this issue once and for all.
God Bless

tapinu33
26th May 2012, 10:30 PM
My final point in question is this:
If the Medjugorje Visionaries wear jeans, pants and dye their hair etc then maybe it is not seen as sinful by God as I thought it was. I would have thought that Our Lady would expect modesty and femininity and that the visionaries would want to imitate Our Lady.
Them wearing jeans during an apparition tells me it is OK to do so.
God Bless

Ron Conte
26th May 2012, 11:05 PM
My final point in question is this:
If the Medjugorje Visionaries wear jeans, pants and dye their hair etc then maybe it is not seen as sinful by God as I thought it was. I would have thought that Our Lady would expect modesty and femininity and that the visionaries would want to imitate Our Lady.
Them wearing jeans during an apparition tells me it is OK to do so.
God Bless

I don't agree with either position. You are assuming that if a visionary does it, then it can't be a sin; it must be OK. This is not a tenable position. Not every visionary is a Saint, and even the Saints had faults and sins.

For example, Saint Peter, the first Pope and a great Apostle, committed a serious error described in Scripture by Saint Paul.

[Galatians]
{2:11} But when Cephas had arrived at Antioch, I stood against him to his face, because he was blameworthy.
{2:12} For before certain ones arrived from James, he ate with the Gentiles. But when they had arrived, he drew apart and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
{2:13} And the other Jews consented to his pretense, so that even Barnabas was led by them into that falseness.
{2:14} But when I had seen that they were not walking correctly, by the truth of the Gospel, I said to Cephas in front of everyone: “If you, while you are a Jew, are living like the Gentiles and not the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to keep the customs of the Jews?”

Just because the Virgin Mary does not correct a visionary for a fault or a sin, does not imply that it is OK.

Truthseeker
26th May 2012, 11:23 PM
I don't agree with either position. You are assuming that if a visionary does it, then it can't be a sin; it must be OK. This is not a tenable position. Not every visionary is a Saint, and even the Saints had faults and sins.

For example, Saint Peter, the first Pope and a great Apostle, committed a serious error described in Scripture by Saint Paul.

[Galatians]
{2:11} But when Cephas had arrived at Antioch, I stood against him to his face, because he was blameworthy.
{2:12} For before certain ones arrived from James, he ate with the Gentiles. But when they had arrived, he drew apart and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
{2:13} And the other Jews consented to his pretense, so that even Barnabas was led by them into that falseness.
{2:14} But when I had seen that they were not walking correctly, by the truth of the Gospel, I said to Cephas in front of everyone: “If you, while you are a Jew, are living like the Gentiles and not the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to keep the customs of the Jews?”

Just because the Virgin Mary does not correct a visionary for a fault or a sin, does not imply that it is OK.

Wait....are we saying that if a woman wears jeans she is committing a sin?

Ron Conte
27th May 2012, 12:28 AM
Wait....are we saying that if a woman wears jeans she is committing a sin?

No. I'm saying that you cannot regard the behavior of every visionary as approved by the Virgin Mary, simply because she has not corrected that behavior. The Church teaches us to follow the examples of the behavior of Jesus and Mary, and of the Saints.

In my view, women should dress and groom themselves differently from men; this usually includes wearing different clothing: skirts and dresses, instead of pants. But it is not a sin for a woman to wear pants, or various other types of clothing. There is a Biblical principle that men and women should have different dress and behavior, as an expression of the plan of God to have two different genders, with different roles.

My theological opinions:
Proper Roles and Behavior for Catholic Men (http://www.catholicplanet.com/men/index.htm)
Proper Roles and Behavior for Catholic Women (http://www.catholicplanet.com/women/index.htm)

tapinu33
27th May 2012, 06:17 PM
Thank you Ron.
God Bless

TheGiftOfLife
27th May 2012, 06:24 PM
One issue is that a woman wearing jeans and a t-shirt can be the cause of a man to sin as she is showing off her curves and legs etc

Just another take on this specific look

a woman NOT dressing feminine and looking like a guy in jeans and a T is not the most attractive look, men are attracted to the feminine dress, not usually the rosie odonell or rosanne barr look

My point is, the jeans and sneaker, tshirt look is more about not dressing like a man and the slippery slope of gender bending. Also anyone wearing that in church is disrespectful, if one truly understood what was happening at Mass.

To dress in the correct gender but skimpy and provocative is what I think you are referring too.

Also its hard to generalize as to what happens when one person looks at another, so the catch all is to respect your body, treat it as a temple and you WILL by natural law dress appropriately.

I think the example of dying your hair so your kids don't have issues with what people say or think about thier mom is acceptable, GREAT example as I was anti-dying hair because I could never anticipate an acceptable reason, Thanks for sharing that!

TheGiftOfLife
12th November 2012, 06:02 PM
Visionary Mirjana Soldo’s two first secret future events will be warnings for Medjugorje locals, says the priest to announce the events


Ron, I found this to be interesting and a direct contradiction to how you tie the first 3 Medjugorje secrets to the 3 Garabandal prophecies.
Garbandal is a Global Warning, a Miracle and a sign.
Apparently, the first 2 Medjugorje secrets are only warnings for Medjugorje.


http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/7838/two-first-secrets-will-warn-medjugorje/

Ron Conte
12th November 2012, 06:09 PM
Visionary Mirjana Soldo’s two first secret future events will be warnings for Medjugorje locals, says the priest to announce the events


Ron, I found this to be interesting and a direct contradiction to how you tie the first 3 Medjugorje secrets to the 3 Garabandal prophecies.
Garbandal is a Global Warning, a Miracle and a sign.
Apparently, the first 2 Medjugorje secrets are only warnings for Medjugorje.


http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/7838/two-first-secrets-will-warn-medjugorje/

I don't agree. That priest has not had the secrets revealed to him yet, so he may be drawing a false conclusion. Mirjana has publicly said that all ten of her secrets are for the world. Therefore, the first 2 secrets are not for Medjugorje only.

However, the different visionaries have different versions of the secrets. Perhaps another visionary may have a different first or second second secret, that might apply to only Medjugorje or to only certain persons or places or events.

TheGiftOfLife
13th November 2012, 12:22 AM
I don't agree. That priest has not had the secrets revealed to him yet, so he may be drawing a false conclusion. Mirjana has publicly said that all ten of her secrets are for the world. Therefore, the first 2 secrets are not for Medjugorje only.

However, the different visionaries have different versions of the secrets. Perhaps another visionary may have a different first or second second secret, that might apply to only Medjugorje or to only certain persons or places or events.

But Ron,
This is the priest that she chose and is very close to. Its not like a Conchita situation where Conchita has completely shut down and is no longer vocal.
The visionaries are on microphones practically every day and talking to people. Dont you think that she would be upset at him for making such definitive statements that are wrong? Dont you think she would have corrected him. Also what would that say about him if he didnt have a more specific understanding of things and just made up stuff. I think its pretty bold for him to make this statement without making sure that that is what Mirjana told him.

In any case , no matter what explanation or spin we put on it something just does not add up. Either way, there are too many statements, too many messages, too much speculation and this coming from the religious man who was chosen to be the messenger.

It sure makes you think