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Pontifex 22nd July 2008 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Conte (Post 19035)
There are two levels to Scripture:

1: words referring to things (literally or figuratively)
2: things referrring to other things (the spiritual level)

Many of the predictions in the OT about Christ are at the second level in the OT, but in the NT, they are then in the first level.

It is not necessary for a truth to be at the first level; a truth could be at either level.


Must there be a correspondance between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Can a deed wrought by God not be found in Sacred Scripture (literally, figuratively or spriritually) ?

Ron Conte 22nd July 2008 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontifex (Post 19037)
Must there be a correspondance between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Can a deed wrought by God not be found in Sacred Scripture (literally, figuratively or spriritually) ?


theologians do not agree on the answer to that question.

my opinion is that all truths found, explicitly or implicitly, in Tradition are also found, explicitly or implicitly, in Scripture, the literal or figurative meaning being explicit, and the spiritual meaning being implicit.

Pontifex 22nd July 2008 08:47 PM

Ron, are true private revelations part of Sacred Tradition ?

Ron Conte 22nd July 2008 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontifex (Post 19045)
Ron, are true private revelations part of Sacred Tradition ?


No. They contain nothing essential to faith, morals, or salvation that is not already found in Tradition and Scripture.

Not every act of God is part of the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation.

Pontifex 22nd July 2008 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Conte (Post 19046)
No. They contain nothing essential to faith, morals, or salvation that is not already found in Tradition and Scripture.

Not every act of God is part of the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation.


Without true private revelations, would you have been able to come to the conclusions found in your writings about the future, ie. those based (or all) in Scriptures?

Ron Conte 22nd July 2008 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontifex (Post 19047)
Without true private revelations, would you have been able to come to the conclusions found in your writings about the future, ie. those based (or all) in Scriptures?

To a great extent, yes. Obviously, certain predictions, such as about the Warning and Miracle are helped a great deal by private revelation. But the entire tribulation is described in the Book of Revelation, and there are also important points in the Gospels and the OT.

Pontifex 22nd July 2008 10:54 PM

Ron, here is an article that explains that Sacred Tradition means the handing down of divine revelation from one generation of believers to the next, as preserved under the divine guidance of the Catholic Church established by Christ.

I believe, as you stated earlier, that we catholics tend to confuse Sacred Tradition with its transmission or even confuse it with oral tradition.


http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0003fea3.asp

Pontifex 23rd July 2008 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontifex (Post 19037)
Must there be a correspondance between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Can a deed wrought by God not be found in Sacred Scripture (literally, figuratively or spriritually) ?


Ron, I was reading the Second Vatican Council (Dei Verbum) which states that the plan of revelation "...is realized by deeds and words having in inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them ".

I take this to mean that there has to be a correspondance between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Are theologians who believe otherwise in error ?

Ron Conte 23rd July 2008 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pontifex (Post 19058)
Ron, I was reading the Second Vatican Council (Dei Verbum) which states that the plan of revelation "...is realized by deeds and words having in inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them ".

I take this to mean that there has to be a correspondance between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Are theologians who believe otherwise in error ?

Yes, Tradition and Scripture are closely related, so closely related that the constitute one Sacred Deposit of Faith.

I'm not sure which theologians or which of their assertions you are referring to.

Pontifex 23rd July 2008 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Conte (Post 19059)
Yes, Tradition and Scripture are closely related, so closely related that the constitute one Sacred Deposit of Faith.

I'm not sure which theologians or which of their assertions you are referring to.


Sorry. I meant, generally speaking, those theologians who teach that it is possible that a given deed wrought by God cannot or may not be found in Sacred Scripture (literally, figuratively or spriritually). Is this an open question for debate among theologians ?


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