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-   -   TS 6: original sin, freewill, and grace (http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1156)

Love The Fisherman 11th May 2007 09:35 AM

Hi Ron,
I am a little curious about the Paradise in which God placed Adam. He was endowed with all the wonderful attributed you described but he was not satisfied. Why? Why was the contemplation and friendship of God not sufficient for him? It was only when God created Eve that Adam declared himself content. This has always puzzled me. I tend to equate this Paradise with Heaven. This is obviously not so.

Ron Conte 11th May 2007 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Angel (Post 8617)
Ron, must we still spend some time in Purgatory for the mortal sins we have committed,
but that have been absolved by a priest in the confessional?


Only if you have not found remission for the temporal punishment due for those sins. One can obtain such remission through prayer, self-denial, works of mercy, or indulgences, or the feast of Divine Mercy.


Ron

Ron Conte 11th May 2007 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love The Fisherman (Post 8618)
Hi Ron,
I am a little curious about the Paradise in which God placed Adam. He was endowed with all the wonderful attributed you described but he was not satisfied. Why? Why was the contemplation and friendship of God not sufficient for him? It was only when God created Eve that Adam declared himself content. This has always puzzled me. I tend to equate this Paradise with Heaven. This is obviously not so.


Paradise is not Heaven.
Adam did not have the Beatific Vision of God, so he was not satisfied.
Having a wife was fitting and right for him, because human beings are
not only like angels, but are also like animals.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they became more like the animals and
less like the angels.

garabandalg 12th May 2007 06:30 AM

Ron, what about fallen angels?
 
Ron, in your writings you mention that many false private revelations may involve fallen angels. Who exactly are such angels and how have they become "fallen"? Are they stuck on earth and why do they deceive as they do? Do they do this for kicks, out of envy or resentment, or what?

Are such angels involved in cases involving ouija boards etc. I am curious.

Ron Conte 12th May 2007 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garabandalg (Post 8643)
Ron, in your writings you mention that many false private revelations may involve fallen angels. Who exactly are such angels and how have they become "fallen"? Are they stuck on earth and why do they deceive as they do? Do they do this for kicks, out of envy or resentment, or what?

Are such angels involved in cases involving ouija boards etc. I am curious.

This article explains the answer to several of your questions:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/appari...evelations.htm

They act out of malice and anger and frustration and envy and resentment and all that is evil. They have no good in them at all.

A human being who is in a state of mortal sin might still respond to grace to some limited extent. But fallen angels are entirely without grace and faith.

They are stuck in Time and cannot know the future. They are unable to enter into Heaven, for they are excluded from the Beatific Vision, which the holy angels have.

myLivingBread 25th May 2007 04:55 AM

TS 6 Original sin
 
Because of original sin, God's love was no longer as visible as before.
This in turn made it more difficult for man to respond to God's call.

The first man who perceived God's call and love again, though faintly,
was Abraham.He responded to it with faith and confidence.

And God's Word made Flesh and dwells among us. Jesus was not only
Word of God, he was also the perfect human answer.His life of total
obedience to God was the perfect human answer. Thus, he reconciled man with God.

And so thru Baptism we became a New People in Christ.

I will make an eternal covenant with them by which I shall never cease to do them good and I shall place my fear in their heart so that they may never turn away from me. (Jer 32:40)

garabandalg 25th May 2007 02:21 PM

Sin as a gap between soul and body/animals and humans
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Conte (Post 8626)
Paradise is not Heaven.
Adam did not have the Beatific Vision of God, so he was not satisfied.
Having a wife was fitting and right for him, because human beings are
not only like angels, but are also like animals.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they became more like the animals and
less like the angels.


Ron, is it fair to say, then, that sin is the gap between our soul and our physical body in that the less sinful and more holy we are, the more aligned and consistent our body will be with our soul's ultimate purpose of being with God? Also, while animals cannot sin as they have no intellect and cannot make rational decisions, is not sin also the closing of that gap between irrational animals and rational humans such that we tend to sin when we act as animals do despite having the rational nature they are incapable of?

Ron Conte 25th May 2007 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garabandalg (Post 9067)
Ron, is it fair to say, then, that sin is the gap between our soul and our physical body in that the less sinful and more holy we are, the more aligned and consistent our body will be with our soul's ultimate purpose of being with God? Also, while animals cannot sin as they have no intellect and cannot make rational decisions, is not sin also the closing of that gap between irrational animals and rational humans such that we tend to sin when we act as animals do despite having the rational nature they are incapable of?


Sin is not a gap between body and soul.
Sin is a knowing choice of wrong over right.

Sin results in the body being less under the reign of the soul, but that is an effect of sin, not sin itself.

Padraig 25th May 2007 05:14 PM

So I wonder Ron, if sin not a thing as such but a nothing, if you see what I mean? not a presence but an absence?

Ron Conte 25th May 2007 06:02 PM

Figuratively, one can say that sin is an absence.

But literally speaking, sin is an act of the will and intellect.
When one knowingly chooses to do what is wrong, then one sins.

We can speak figuratively and somewhat poetically about sin,
using various comparisions and figures of speech, still, such
things are not the defintions of sin, but are merely a commentary
about sin.


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