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-   -   Jesus nailed in His wrist vs. palm.... (http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5387)

Brother 1st October 2012 03:25 PM

Jesus nailed in His wrist vs. palm....
 
Hi Ron,

I agree that Jesus was most likely nailed in His anatomic wrist for the reasons well explained in your interesting article:

http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article16.htm

The pain in this area must have been unbearable because of a very sensitive nerve that passes thru that location:



Furthermore, in this area, is where the bones are stronger to be able support the weight of the human body (besides some cords that might have been used to support Jesus in the cross).

Saint Bridget of Sweden could not have been more specific about it: "they transfixed His hand in the part where the bone was firmest." (Revelations to St. Bridget, TAN Books and Publishers, p. 45). The middle of the palm, is not the firmest area, on the contrary, that area is very weak and could have easily been torn apart with some significant weight and pressure. Therefore, it is most likely that the area of the hand where Jesus was nailed was His anatomic wrist.

However, I don't think that the Bible necessary supports that the wounds of Christ were in the middle of His palms:

Quote:

Sacred Scripture supports the idea that the wounds of Christ's hands were in the palm of the hand, and not in what is commonly called the wrist. "Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here, and see my hands….' " (John 20:27). " 'See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself….' And when he had said this he showed them his hands and his feet." (Luke 24:39-40). Notice that Jesus asks Thomas and the other Apostles to examine His hands, not His wrists.

Jesus says to Thomas: "Put your finger here, and see my 'hands'".

Now, when He says "hands", does not necessarily means his "palms" or "the middle of His "palms".

If I'm not mistaken, the word "hands" in ancient Greek, implies the whole structure of the hands which includes the wrist area. - ( Please advise if you or someone have good knowledge of this).

At least it's clear that Jesus does not say, "see my palms".

Ron Conte 1st October 2012 03:57 PM

The anatomical wrist is located in the heel of the hand, not in the location where a wrist watch is commonly worn. So a location for the nails in the anatomical wrist could be considered to be part of the palm of the hand (the base of the palm).

Brother 1st October 2012 04:50 PM

Another important thing to mention is that according to Sacred Scripture, none of Jesus' bones were broken. Therefore, the nail might have passed thru one of the spaces of the anatomical wrist, were the bones are stronger - the base area of the hand.



The bones of the wrist, showing Destot's Space and the start of the "Z" space.

The Shroud of Turin clearly shows the area where Jesus might have been nailed:



And this representation is a good example of how He could have been nailed:


Figure 3 The nail entering the Z space that will exit exactly where the Shroud shows the exit wound.

Ron Conte 1st October 2012 05:04 PM

It looks to me from the Shroud of Turin that the nails entered the anatomical wrist. But I can't agree that the Shroud by itself establishes exactly where within the anatomical wrist.

Brother 1st October 2012 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Conte (Post 41036)
It looks to me from the Shroud of Turin that the nails entered the anatomical wrist. But I can't agree that the Shroud by itself establishes exactly where within the anatomical wrist.


Yes, I agree Ron, I don't know where 'exactly' either. That statement regarding Figure 3 was taken from this source:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/ne...7/replies?c=11

However, I do firmly think that somewere within that specific - the anatomic wrist area - Jesus was nailed. The nails might have passed thru one of those spaces of the anatomical wrist.

Abba25 1st October 2012 11:04 PM

Stigmata
 
Do you guys know where specifically the wounds of stigmata are located? Has anyone seen a picture of them uncovered. It would make sense that God would be exact with these stigmata wounds.

TheGiftOfLife 2nd October 2012 04:42 AM

There are actual pictures of Padre Pio as a young man with stigmata clearly shown on the palm

http://www.ewtn.com/padrepio/mystic/stigmata.htm

http://zionica.com/2011/11/17/saint-...d-by-new-book/

Some pictures of Theresa Numan seem to show movement from one picture to the other, on the back on the hand
http://www.amazon.com/Therese-Neuman.../dp/0895552418

http://pinterest.com/pin/274438171013565637/

http://pinterest.com/pin/274438171013565646/

All others stigmatists show the palm.

I do find brother's post to be very convincing as it explains the shroud and the bible. However, it baffles me about where it resides on the stigmatists. It seems to me that God would put it in the proper place.

Another interesting fact is that the shroud shows the back portion of Christs hands and that is where the exit wound would have been in brothers post and pictures.

A final fact, assuming that the shroud is a fraud and only ~800 years old. At that time all paintings showed Him with wounds in the palms. Even well after artists painted Him with wounds in the palm. The counterfeiters would have wanted the shroud to be what was acceptable, so, in my opinion, this is even MORE evidence that it is authentic, because it went against the grain.

One one more note, Looking this up, all dating on the internet and in our children's school books have TAKEN Christ out of dates. Its not longer the TRUTH BC (before Christ) AD (after Christ), its not BCE(before the common era) CE(common era) - Just another way to remove God from our lives

Brother 2nd October 2012 02:16 PM

Good point regarding stigmatas - however, not for historical research
 
True Stigmatas are evidence of Jesus' Passion; however, they can not be taken as a good source to determinate where exactly, or how exactly Jesus was nailed on the cross, for the simple reason that even true reliable Stigmatas show wounds in slightly different parts of the body.

For example, as Gift have showed us, even on the same person, stigmata signs some times do not appear on the same spot once they have gone and come back as in the case of Theresa Neuman which show some wounds in the middle of the hand, then on another picture, the wound is showing a little lower section of the hand.

St. Padre Pio wounds generally show in the middle of his palms, on the other hand, Fr. Sudac show wounds in a very low part of his wrist. However, for the reasons explained above in this thread, neither shows the 'exact' spot where Jesus was nailed. Why God show different spots on stigmatas? why He doesn't show the 'exact' place where Jesus was nailed in stigmatas? - in my opinion Stigmatas is for a remainder of God's love for us, of Jesus' passion, but it is not for historical research - but in general it's a mystery totally known to God.

Another important fact to mention is the following, Jesus' crucifixion is the most famous - Yes; however, His crucifixion was not the first. Crucifixion dates back from about the 6th century BC. Crucifixion was in use at a comparatively high rate among the Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...83/crucifixion

So, those executioners, the Romans who nailed Him, were EXPERT in crucifixion, they were doing a job they have been doing many times, and Jesus' crucifixion, was just another one in their list for them. They were no 'novices', they Knew what they were doing - in the sense that they were specialists. They knew that nailing Him thru the anatomic wrists bones of the hand was good enough to hold Him on the cross, and again, as St. Bridge of Sweden saw in her vision, she very specific says: "they transfixed His hand in the part where the bone was firmest."

jeromeindesert 12th April 2013 01:55 AM

St. Bridget was right but anatomy shows palms, not wrists
 
Jesus was crucified with nails through his "hands" not his wrists. In the 1960s/1970s, Anti-christian "mythbusters" came up with a phony experiment where they took a pig and crucified it and showed that the "hands" were inadequate to hold the 220 pound pig's pays to the cross as the nails might have torn thru the flesh.

This bogus experiment was debunked on Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) by a physician who explained that the palms of the hands are actually the very site best for nailing the upper extremities to the cross. Moreover, the Romans tied down the forearms to the cross before nailing. Otherwise, it would have been almost impossible to get the victim to hold still while the large blunt nails were hammered thru the palm & into the pre-made holes in the wooden crossbeam.

Blessed Catherine Emmerich, among other holy persons who were shown visions of the crucifixion, wrote that the Roman soldiers dislocated one of the arms of Jesus in order to stretch it to reach the pre-made hole in the cross beam. Then, the nail was hammered thru the palm of Jesus' other hand.

The large blunt nails used and their placement in the center of the palm, combined with the ropes holding the forearms in place, assured that the nails in the palms would not tear.

St Bridget was right. The palm of the hand was the strongest anatomical point for holding Jesus to the cross. As to whether the nails went through the upper palms, center palms or whatever, that is straining at the gnat. Suffice it to say that there is no credible evidence of Jesus being nailed through the wrists. That would contradict the biblical accounts.

jeromeindesert 12th April 2013 02:42 AM

Z space is part of hand/not wrist
 
"Saint Bridget of Sweden could not have been more specific about it: "they transfixed His hand in the part where the bone was firmest." (Revelations to St. Bridget, TAN Books and Publishers, p. 45)."

Brother is correct that a nail through the Z space would come out at the base of the hand & thus would coincide with the shroud of turin which appears to show blood in this "wrist" area.

Hanging from a cross beam, gravity would have caused the blood
to pool at the bottom of the back of the hand, which is close to the wrist and perhaps gravity caused some blood to drip & coagulate onto the wrist area. Still, the wound area would have been in the z part of Jesus' hand.

The "bright" spot that shows up near the wrist area on the Shroud of Turin is "blood." Indeed, the Shroud if full of blood stains as scientists investigating the Shroud reported.

Note: When Jesus appeared to Thomas he told Thomas to put his fingers into his "hands". :neutral:


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