CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group

CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group (http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/index.php)
-   Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium (http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Our Father Prayer (http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5951)

OregonCatholic 6th July 2016 03:07 PM

Our Father Prayer
 
I apologize if you've already addressed this Ron, but I haven't seen it anywhere. I have a question in regard to the Our Father Prayer found in the Gospel of Matthew.

{6:13} And lead us not into temptation. But free us from evil. Amen.

I've recently read that this should actually be written as "...And let us not fall into temptation. But free us from the evil one." Since God doesn't actually lead anyone into temptation. Would the revised translation be more appropriate?

Ron Conte 6th July 2016 03:23 PM

{6:13} Et ne nos inducas in tentationem. Sed libera nos a malo. Amen.
{6:13} And lead us not into temptation. But free us from evil. Amen.

The Vulgate clearly says "inducas" which means to lead into....
God does not tempt anyone, but He does put people to the test, i.e. allow or even lead them into situations where their faith is tested.

The "malo" can be translated as "the evil one", but the more likely translation is simply "evil".

OregonCatholic 7th December 2017 06:01 PM

Looks like the Holy Father may be recommending this change be made after all.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/12/...-lords-prayer/

Brother 8th December 2017 10:12 PM

This is interesting for the Holy Father's main language is Spanish, and his proposed new translation into English is closer to the Spanish translated version of the Our Father.

In Spanish we say "no nos dejes caer en tentación" which translating literally into English is what the Holy Father is proposing "do not let us fall into temptation".

I have also noticed that the translation of the Apostle's Creed is somewhat different than the Spanish version.

For example in English we say:

"He descended into Hell"

The Spanish version says (translating it literally):

"He descended into the Hells" (plural).

The Catechism of Trent teaches that there are three abodes of Hell:

Quote:

Different Abodes Called Hell"

These abodes are not all of the same nature, for among them is that most loathsome and dark prison in which the souls of the damned are tormented with the unclean spirits in eternal and inextinguishable fire. This place is called gehenna, the bottomless pit, and is hell strictly so*called.

Among them is also the fire of purgatory, in which the souls of just men are cleansed by a temporary punishment, in order to be admitted into their eternal country, into which nothing defiled entereth. The truth of this doctrine, founded, as holy Councils declare,' on Scripture, and confirmed by Apostolic tradition, demands exposition from the pastor, all the more diligent and frequent, because we live in times when men endure not sound doctrine.

Lastly, the third kind of abode is that into which the souls of the just before the coming of Christ the Lord, were received, and where, without experiencing any sort of pain, but supported by the blessed hope of redemption, they enjoyed peaceful repose. To liberate these holy souls, who, in the bosom of Abraham were expecting the Saviour, Christ the Lord descended into hell.
http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebook...t/tcreed05.htm

I would say either translation is correct.

Also, in English we say:

"on the third day He rose 'again' from the dead" - that "again" is not in the Spanish version.

The Latin version of the Apostle's creed:

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae. Et in Iesum Christum, Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum, qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine, passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus, descendit ad infernos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis, ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis, inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos. Credo in Spiritum Sanctum, sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem, remissionem peccatorum, carnis resurrectionem, vitam aeternam. Amen.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/prayer/latrosar.htm

Ron Conte 9th December 2017 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonCatholic (Post 44673)
I apologize if you've already addressed this Ron, but I haven't seen it anywhere. I have a question in regard to the Our Father Prayer found in the Gospel of Matthew.

{6:13} And lead us not into temptation. But free us from evil. Amen.

I've recently read that this should actually be written as "...And let us not fall into temptation. But free us from the evil one." Since God doesn't actually lead anyone into temptation. Would the revised translation be more appropriate?


I have a post addressing this question:
https://ronconte.wordpress.com/2017/...he-our-father/


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.