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Old 2nd March 2010, 11:44 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default The four horsemen of the apocalypse

[Revelation 6]
{6:1} And I saw that the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals. And I heard one of the four living creatures saying, in a voice like thunder: “Draw near and see.”

The Seven Seals represent seven sets of events, which encompass the entire tribulation.

{6:2} And I saw, and behold, a white horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering, so that he might prevail.

The first seal is the first horseman, symbolizing a war, world war three, in which the Arab/Muslim extremists of the Middle East and northern Africa invade and conquer Europe. I believe this war begins in 2010.

{6:3} And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:4} And another horse went forth, which was red. And it was granted to him who was sitting upon it that he would take peace from the earth, and that they would kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.

The second seal is the second horseman, which symbolizes widespread civil violence throughout the world: rioting, looting, setting fires, robbery, murder, etc. This event begins soon after the war begins. The first seal is the partial cause of the second seal; people are afraid because of the war (and also because of the Warning and Miracle), and so they turn to violence.

{6:5} And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: “Draw near and see.” And behold, a black horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a balance in his hand.
{6:6} And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A double measure of wheat for a denarius, and three double measures of barley for a denarius, but do no harm to wine and oil.”

The third seal is the third horseman, which symbolizes a great famine, from mid 2013 to mid 2020. This famine will be more severe in wealthy developed nations, and less severe in poor underdeveloped nations. In the wealthy nations, luxury goods like electronics and cars will be availabe, but at the same time there will be food shortages, food distribution problems, and rationing. The third seal is caused by the first and second seals; the war and the severe civil disorder cause problems distributing food and even growing food (in some places, such as Europe).

{6:7} And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:8} And behold, a pale horse. And he who was sitting upon it, his name was Death, and Hell was following him. And authority was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to destroy by the sword, by famine, and by death, and by the creatures of the earth.

The first three seals cause the fourth seal: death by a variety of causes. The 'creatures of the earth' refers to bacteria and viruses, so there are various epidemics of disease partially caused by the war, violence, and famine.

These four sets of events occur in the 2010's. The war winds down in the late 2010's, and the violence subsides, and the famine ends, and the deaths decrease substantially.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 02:10 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default Some thoughts on immediacy of such events

It seems to me that there are two extreme camps when it comes to those who look at such Biblical references. The first one sees everything as happening very soon ( 4 horsemen, antichrist etc) and the second one sees everything as happening in the very distant future beyond our concern.

Ron represents the middle ground. He provides distinctions between what he believes will be soon, as here, and much more distant, as the antichrist etc.
I think that is a more rational, reatlistic, and sensible way to go. I do not know what order is what. I leave that to scholars like Ron. What I do know is that the devil lives in extremes, and we are wise to stay away from them.

I think the evil one thrives in these extremes because he wins either way. If we believe everything will happen soon then anything which does not happen will cut against our faith and future belief. If we believe everything will happen in the very distant future beyond our concern, we will eventually not care about these things.

I think that our best bet is to understand that these things are layered, spread out over time, but to always strive to see them as immediate, not in temporal terms, but in terms of our ultimate salvation. We may not be sure when they will happen, but we can be sure that doing our best to respect and follow their lessons even before they happen can only help our immediate struggle for salvation. Thoughts and corrections on this welcome as always.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 02:21 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garabandalg View Post
It seems to me that there are two extreme camps when it comes to those who look at such Biblical references. The first one sees everything as happening very soon ( 4 horsemen, antichrist etc) and the second one sees everything as happening in the very distant future beyond our concern.

Ron represents the middle ground. He provides distinctions between what he believes will be soon, as here, and much more distant, as the antichrist etc.
I think that is a more rational, reatlistic, and sensible way to go. I do not know what order is what. I leave that to scholars like Ron. What I do know is that the devil lives in extremes, and we are wise to stay away from them.

I think the evil one thrives in these extremes because he wins either way. If we believe everything will happen soon then anything which does not happen will cut against our faith and future belief. If we believe everything will happen in the very distant future beyond our concern, we will eventually not care about these things.

I think that our best bet is to understand that these things are layered, spread out over time, but to always strive to see them as immediate, not in temporal terms, but in terms of our ultimate salvation. We may not be sure when they will happen, but we can be sure that doing our best to respect and follow their lessons even before they happen can only help our immediate struggle for salvation. Thoughts and corrections on this welcome as always.

My question is: Where would be the safest palce to live during all this? USA ? Also do you consder the jihad called by Libya on Switzerland and Europe as a begenning of all this ?
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Old 2nd March 2010, 03:45 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Good comments, garabandalg.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
My question is: Where would be the safest palce to live during all this? USA ?
our Lady at La Salette:
4. ‘Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! God is going to exhaust His wrath, and no one will be able to take himself away from so many afflictions combined.’

There is no completely safe place. The tribulation is worldwide.
We should each prayerfully seek the will of God as to where we should be,
and what we should do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Also do you consder the jihad called by Libya on Switzerland and Europe as a begenning of all this ?

No, not at all. The tribulation has not yet begun.
The events of the tribulation are very severe; they will astound everyone.
They will not be subtle events.
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  #5  
Old 2nd March 2010, 04:49 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default God is our safe Haven and no other place comes close

Perhaps the only "safe" place is within God's embrace. In other words, while attempting to be as close to and consistent regarding God as possible. We all falter, and sometimes badly. Only God would have the patience He has with our weak natures. Yet, despite our weakness and inconsistency, we must love and have faith in God enough to keep coming back to Him while, of course, always striving to be more consistent and dedicated to His service, Word, and Will.

The less we look to anywhere in this world as the "safe" place and see God as that place, the less we will depend on the flimsy safeguards of this temporal place.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 04:53 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garabandalg View Post
Perhaps the only "safe" place is within God's embrace. In other words, while attempting to be as close to and consistent regarding God as possible. We all falter, and sometimes badly. Only God would have the patience He has with our weak natures. Yet, despite our weakness and inconsistency, we must love and have faith in God enough to keep coming back to Him while, of course, always striving to be more consistent and dedicated to His service, Word, and Will.

The less we look to anywhere in this world as the "safe" place and see God as that place, the less we will depend on the flimsy safeguards of this temporal place.

Wise words indeed...it is time to adore God in Spirit and in Truth as Jesus said to the woman on the well....
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Old 2nd March 2010, 11:20 PM
Dan A Dan A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garabandalg View Post
Perhaps the only "safe" place is within God's embrace.

I think that sums it up very well. Trust in God and pray, these things must come to pass.
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  #8  
Old 3rd March 2010, 05:12 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default Need to keep all in perspective

One of the most profound things I ever read was that God's peace is gained as one leaves all to God in loving, obedient, and faithful abandonment to His Will. Much of our suffering, sin and weakness comes, ironically, from our efforts to avoid suffering and weakness by pretending that we actually steer our ship. It seems to me that we can certainly sink our ship or cause it to become lost, but the journey to Heaven can have only one Captain...God.
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