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  #11  
Old 9th February 2011, 12:14 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by feyfifer View Post
is it reasonable to consider that,
* since God created the universe and evrything in it for the sons of God, and even gave him sway over all
* and God took the the 6 days of kairos time to fashion the universe for the sons of God
the physical bodies of "the daughters of men" (as distinct from the sons of God who kept the faith and were direct descendants of Adam) were evolved from apes for sons of God to procreate with?...so that the sons of God would be completely integrated with creation?..that being the orginal intention of God if Adam hadnt sinned?

No, not at all. God created Adam and Eve. All human persons are descended from Adam and Eve. Whether or not evolution was involved in developing the pattern for the human body, at some point in time Adam and Eve were directly created by God and we are all descended from these two first human persons. God created men and women with the same purpose in mind, love of God and neighbor.
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  #12  
Old 9th February 2011, 01:37 PM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
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Ron,

you meant "No, Not at all"...it is not reasonable??

or did you agree its plausible?




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No, not at all. God created Adam and Eve. All human persons are descended from Adam and Eve. Whether or not evolution was involved in developing the pattern for the human body, at some point in time Adam and Eve were directly created by God and we are all descended from these two first human persons. God created men and women with the same purpose in mind, love of God and neighbor.
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  #13  
Old 9th February 2011, 03:55 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Ron,

you meant "No, Not at all"...it is not reasonable??

or did you agree its plausible?

It is not reasonable, it is not plausible, it is contrary to the teachings of the Faith.
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  #14  
Old 9th February 2011, 05:37 PM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
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Okay Ron, it was just a thought that was thrown about during a chat with some Christian scientists.

But I defer to the conviction of your faith, which was the reason I joined here in the first place.

So thank you for setting me right on that.





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It is not reasonable, it is not plausible, it is contrary to the teachings of the Faith.
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  #15  
Old 18th February 2011, 09:59 AM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
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Default An understanding of the Soul

What is the soul?..The Spirit of Man was breathed into his body by God, yet after his death, it is the soul that goes to either Heaven or Hell or Purgatory. Does the soul reside in the mind of man while he is alive, given that it is the soul that makes man cognitive of good and evil? Or does a soul remain apart from the wholistic composition of man altogether, and still somehow influence the emotional and volitional processes. Can anyone help me understand?






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{1:26} And he said: “Let us make Man to our image and likeness. And let him rule over the fish of the sea, and the flying creatures of the air, and the wild beasts, and the entire earth, and every animal that moves on the earth.”
{1:27} And God created man to his own image; to the image of God he created him; male and female, he created them.

Mankind, men and women, are each and all made in the image of God, more so than any other living creature upon the face of the earth. All creation is a reflection of the Goodness of God. But human nature all the more so. Men and women have the same nature; this is the true basis for equality. Just as the Three Persons of the Trinity are co-equal as God by having the same Nature, so also are human persons equal before God and one another by having the same nature.

{2:7} And then the Lord God formed man from the clay of the earth, and he breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
{2:8} Now the Lord God had planted a Paradise of enjoyment from the beginning. In it, he placed the man whom he had formed.

Adam is made from the clay (dust, mud, earth) of the earth. Adam was formed by God, just as a potter forms a vessel from clay. But this applies to all human persons, not only to Adam, and not only to men. We are all told, on Ash Wednesday, 'Remember that you are dust, and unto dust you shall return.'

{2:18} The Lord God also said: “It is not good for the man to be alone. Let us make a helper for him similar to himself.”

A man benefits from the companionship of a woman. But the role of a woman, especially in marriage, is to be a helper to her husband. She is similar to him, in that they each have the same nature. But she is a helper, indicating a difference in roles.

Christ is the new Adam. Mary is the new Eve. Mary was created to be a helper to Christ in all that He does for our salvation. But to be a helper to Him in saving us from sin, she had to be sinless -- from her creation. Therefore, this passage points to the Immaculate Conception.

{2:19} Therefore, the Lord God, having formed from the soil all the animals of the earth and all the flying creatures of the air, brought them to Adam, in order to see what he would call them. For whatever Adam would call any living creature, that would be its name.

Adam, and by extention mankind, has authority over the earth and all its creatures. The ability to name a thing indicates authority over that thing.

{2:20} And Adam called each of the living things by their names: all the flying creatures of the air, and all the wild beasts of the land. Yet truly, for Adam, there was not found a helper similar to himself.

They did not have the same nature as Adam, so they could not be 'a helper similar to himself'.

{2:21} And so the Lord God sent a deep sleep upon Adam. And when he was fast asleep, he took one of his ribs, and he completed it with flesh for it.

A false interpretation is commonly expressed today, that Adam is made from mud or dirt, and that Eve was made from flesh and bone, so that women are therefore better in their natures than men. Not so. The passage that describes Adam being made from clay indicates the origins of all humanity. Even if we take the passage literally, such that Adam was miraculously created from clay, this does not imply that males are all created from clay, and that women are not. And if Adam were to be denigrated for being created from clay, how can Eve be exalted when the flesh and bone from which she was created is from Adam? This false but very common interpretation is offensive to the dignity before God of all human persons.

Eve is described as being created from the side of Adam for a number of reasons. 1) She is made of the same flesh and bone as Adam, indicating equality of nature. This is a profound and ancient teaching, long before modernist ideas of feminism (with its false version of equality that exalts women above men). 2) She represents the Church, being created from the side of Christ on the Cross. 3) Her creation from the side of Adam indicates the will of God that men and women marry, becoming one flesh. So the equality of nature is essential to both natural marriage and the Sacrament of Marriage.

{2:22} And the Lord God built up the rib, which he took from Adam, into a woman. And he led her to Adam.
{2:23} And Adam said: “Now this is bone from my bones, and flesh from my flesh. This one shall be called woman, because she was taken from man.”

Adam names the woman, indicating his role of leadership over her. But since she is bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh, his authority over her, just as a husband has authority over his wife, is a role between persons who are equal.

{2:24} For this reason, a man shall leave behind his father and mother, and he shall cling to his wife; and the two shall be as one flesh.

The union of man and women in marriage is based on their equality of nature, and also on their differences in gender and role. And this is why marriage is limited to one man and one woman. The similarities and the differences are both essential to true marriage.

{2:25} Now they were both naked: Adam, of course, and his wife. And they were not ashamed.

Eve is the wife of Adam, and they are not ashamed to be husband and wife, since marriage is ordained by God.
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  #16  
Old 18th February 2011, 01:49 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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What is the soul?..The Spirit of Man was breathed into his body by God, yet after his death, it is the soul that goes to either Heaven or Hell or Purgatory. Does the soul reside in the mind of man while he is alive, given that it is the soul that makes man cognitive of good and evil? Or does a soul remain apart from the wholistic composition of man altogether, and still somehow influence the emotional and volitional processes. Can anyone help me understand?

The term spirit is sometimes used to indicate the soul. So the soul of man was breathed into humanity by God. At conception, God creates the soul of each person. The soul and the body are thoroughly united as one person, so the soul does not dwell in one particular body part. The soul is a spiritual thing, so it occupies no space.
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  #17  
Old 19th February 2011, 08:39 AM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
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Is'nt there a conventional holding that the soul somehow is the vessel of the spirit of God in the human body, and it is the coalescence (or schism) of the two during the course of a human life, that renders it for judgement finally?

Granted Ron, the soul occupies no space. But the mind too, occupies no space. I guess my root question is "How much of the mind is in the soul?" because if , as psychologists decree, that, my personality and behavioural traits are mostly controlled by genetic disposition and environmental conditioning, how much of my soul is contaminated by factors beyond MY control and free will?...also keeping in mind biblical instances of curses and blessings being transmuted through generations.




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The term spirit is sometimes used to indicate the soul. So the soul of man was breathed into humanity by God. At conception, God creates the soul of each person. The soul and the body are thoroughly united as one person, so the soul does not dwell in one particular body part. The soul is a spiritual thing, so it occupies no space.
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  #18  
Old 19th February 2011, 12:52 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Is'nt there a conventional holding that the soul somehow is the vessel of the spirit of God in the human body, and it is the coalescence (or schism) of the two during the course of a human life, that renders it for judgement finally?

The soul is not a container for the spirit of God. The human person, body and soul, is made in the image of God. However, the state of grace can be viewed as the presence of God with the soul. Dying in a state of grace is salvation. Dying without the state of grace is condemnation.

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Originally Posted by feyfifer View Post
Granted Ron, the soul occupies no space. But the mind too, occupies no space. I guess my root question is "How much of the mind is in the soul?" because if , as psychologists decree, that, my personality and behavioural traits are mostly controlled by genetic disposition and environmental conditioning, how much of my soul is contaminated by factors beyond MY control and free will?...also keeping in mind biblical instances of curses and blessings being transmuted through generations.

In my view, body and soul are closely united as one person and when they work together, this results in what we call mind and heart. But we can't really separate out which aspects of mind are of the brain and which are of the soul. It is a close cooperation that produces mind.

Free will is influenced and sometimes compromised by various factors. Any factor that reduces free will reduces culpability for sin.
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