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  #311  
Old 5th April 2012, 05:40 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Originally Posted by Pontifex View Post
What will you do when 'the Vatican' says Medjugorje is a false revelation, if they should decide to do so after the current commission pronounces itself ? Do you think this will be an infallible judgement ?

Rulings on private Revelations are NEVER infallible.
Infallibility only deals with doctrinal matters of the church.

We all might WANT to Vatican to approve certain apparitions, but Mary has always taught obedience to the church. That means, not speaking against the Vatican and being silent until God wants.

e.g.
I personally think Garabandal might be a true private revelation but will NEVER say that it definitely is, I only THINK it is. and this might shock you all, but im just not convinced about Medjugorje, so much does not add up to me.

If the Vatican comes out and says it is a false revelation and forbids people to go there or the preach about it, then I will obey and not speak about it either good or bad and wait to see what God wants.

As a priest, Fr. Petar should be silent about it(vassula) and not speak of it as if it is true because there are many things said in that revelation that DIRECTLY goes against church teaching. (VASSULA)

To me, this not only is being obedient to his church, but is common sense.

I take issue with anyone that takes actions directly against Vatican direction.

eg, these crackpots that go that this false apparition site here in Flushing Queens or people, including priests that keep accusing Holy Father of not revealing the Fatima 3rd secret and to consecrate Russia (fr. Gruner)
This is a priest that basically calls BLESSED JPII and the Pope & Sr. Lucia Liars and is still not decollard!

Regardless of what we think, we should just be silent and have a wait and see approach. We can talk positive about anything that the Vatican has a "wait and see" policy on, but NOT something that is forbidden. This does not mean we must talk negatively about a forbidden revelation, but we should at least remain silent and not put OUR stamp of approval on it especially if you are a priest. Didnt Saint Pio obey the church???

I for one find it kinda weird that both JPII and B. XVI think the 3rd secret is about JPII's assassination attempt. I just dont think that adds up, but I say nothing and dont call them liars as so many "good" Catholics do. I put my trust in the Holy See and no matter what the outcome, I am loyal.

Last edited by TheGiftOfLife : 5th April 2012 at 05:44 AM.
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  #312  
Old 5th April 2012, 11:53 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Rulings on private Revelations are NEVER infallible.
Infallibility only deals with doctrinal matters of the church.

This is true. But I should add that, if a claimed private revelation teaches a claimed doctrine, the Magisterium can infallibly condemn that doctrine. If it is clear that a CPR taught such an infallibly condemned doctrine, then the claimed private revelation would certainly be false. This type of certitude in a temporal matter is called a dogmatic fact, and is infallible.

Examples of dogmatic facts:
That each of the 21 Ecumenical Councils, up to and including Vatican II, are valid Councils.
That the successive Popes are valid Popes, up to and including the current Pope (Benedict XVI).
That Anglican orders are not a valid Sacrament (their priests and bishops are not validly ordained.
That Mormon and Jehovah's Witness baptisms are not a valid Sacrament.
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  #313  
Old 5th April 2012, 05:04 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
This is true. But I should add that, if a claimed private revelation teaches a claimed doctrine, the Magisterium can infallibly condemn that doctrine.

Im confused, why would the Mag. condemn a known true doctrinal part of a CPR ? If they condemn the entire CPR who happens to speak of a true doctrine then I would not consider that condemning that doctrine. explain further, thanks
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  #314  
Old 5th April 2012, 06:43 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by TheGiftOfLife View Post
Im confused, why would the Mag. condemn a known true doctrinal part of a CPR ? If they condemn the entire CPR who happens to speak of a true doctrine then I would not consider that condemning that doctrine. explain further, thanks

Some claimed private revelations teach ideas, which they claim are sound doctrine, but which in fact are heretical doctrines, which have been condemned by the Church. This implies that the claimed private revelation is false, and certainly so.
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  #315  
Old 29th April 2012, 10:04 AM
Calleva Calleva is offline
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I agree with Gift of Life. I saw the documentary on Garabandal on British TV (a very rare example here of positive programming on a Catholic theme) and felt at once that it was true. But I admit to disappointment that Concita has still not given us the date of the miracle. I also feel badly for Joey who has had to remain blind for decades with no healing, despite being promised one.

I'm not personally convinced about Medjugorge - one of the holiest people I know visits often and I accept that many of its supporters are wonderful Catholics who are far better people than I am. If the Church decides in favour, I will of course happily concur.

The Church can alter its rulings -initially (based on a faulty translation of the Diary) the Divine Mercy devotion was condemned and Faustina regarded as a false prophet. Padre Pio is another well-known example, he was regarded with suspicion for many years and his priestly faculties restricted. Obedience and humility are good signs that something is genuine.
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  #316  
Old 30th April 2012, 12:01 AM
Abba25 Abba25 is offline
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Default Celleva...Believe in Medj

I went there. I am an engineer by schooling. I am practical, logical , and not swayed by hysteria....I went there and saw the miracle of the sun..to my grave I will believe.....it was life changing.
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  #317  
Old 30th April 2012, 01:46 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Originally Posted by Calleva View Post
Obedience and humility are good signs that something is genuine.

Even some of our priests don't get this. Eg. Fr. Grunner of the Fatima center who constantly and indirectly call JPII, Sister Lucia and Pope Ben. XVI liars for not revealing the true 3rd secret of Fatima and also for not consecrating Russia. Even after seeing interviews and Vatican statements on the subjects, that state that the ENTIRE 3rd Secret was revealed AND that the consecration that JPII with Sr. Lucias blessing, this priest still sends out mailings asking for money for the cause of the true 3rd secret and to pressure the Pope to do the "proper consecration".

To call these people liars, one who is blessed, is stating that they are in the act of MORTAL SIN! , can you imagine this! - unreal!

If anyone wants to try to help this misguided priest, here is the website.

Here is one crazy excerpt implying that there is some Vatican Conspiricy as listed in the 3rd Secret Timeline.

2001, May 16: Reflecting the growing skepticism of millions of Catholics, Mother Angelica states on her live television show that she does not believe the Vatican has revealed the entirety of the Third Secret. “Mother Angelica Live” as a live program is taken off the air by December.

It was taken off the air because she had a major stroke!

www.fatima.org
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