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  #1  
Old 2nd June 2013, 12:06 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Scandal at the Houston Co-Cathedral

The Sin of Scandal at the Houston Co-Cathedral
http://ronconte.wordpress.com/2013/0...-co-cathedral/

This past Tuesday, May 28th, at 7 pm, the diocese permitted the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church to hold a “Service of Commissioning & Ordination” at the Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart, with “Bishop Janice R. Huie preaching”. She invalidly attempted to ordain both men and women.
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Old 4th June 2013, 10:03 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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I just saw what may be their excuse under Canon Law. However, it seems that they have not read it well:

137. Catholic churches are consecrated or blessed buildings which have an important theological and liturgical significance for the Catholic community. They are therefore generally reserved for Catholic worship. However, if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies, the diocesan Bishop may allow them the use of a church or a Catholic building and also lend them what may be necessary for their services. Under similar circumstances, permission may be given to them for interment or for the celebration of services at Catholic cemeteries.


That ceremony was not celebrated worthily because it's an attempt against our Faith and it's also harming the faithful.

Furthermore, with go by the Spirit of Christ not by mere laws. Therefore, laws must be understood in light of Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium, not like mere pagans.

[2 Corinthians]
{3:6} And he has made us suitable ministers of the New Testament, not in the letter, but in the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[Galatians]
{5:18} But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

[Romans]
{7:6} But now we have been released from the law of death, by which we were being held, so that now we may serve with a renewed spirit, and not in the old way, by the letter.

...and many more passages.
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Old 4th June 2013, 11:46 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Just because an action is permissible, at the Bishop’s discretion, under Canon Law, does not imply that the action is moral.
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  #4  
Old 5th June 2013, 12:39 AM
jeromeindesert jeromeindesert is offline
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Default use of catholic cathedral in Houston

Right now, satan is attacking humanity with homosexuality, abortion & all sorts of immorality.

If I was the Bishop of Houston, I would permit the protestants to do their rituals in the cathedral. A Methodist "ordination" is not equivalent to a Roman Catholic ordination.

There is a downtown Catholic church in Detroit that lets a reform Jewish congregation use part of their building. To me, this is just "commendable cooperation".

It doesn't matter if the group is protestant or Jewish. Simply letting a group use a RC church does not, as Ron notes, imply that we morally endorse what the group believes.

Nor does it imply that the RC church believes in that group's moral standards on a variety of issues.

Is it "immoral" to allow a group that is not christian to use a christian building? I don't know.

I do know that the morality of the world at this time is worse than it was at the time of Noah. By showing groups separated from us that we will allow them to go through their own rituals, in our buildings, I don't think we offend God.

If the "Church of Satan" wanted to use the building & it was permitted, clearly that would offend God & be a horrible abomination.

Reform Jews and liberal protestants fall into a different category. You get more flies with sugar than vinegar. "You destroy your enemies by making them your friends."

The issue is not 100% clear in my mind but I do not see that the Houston Bishop has committed an immoral act, though I could be persuaded otherwise, I suppose.

Last edited by jeromeindesert : 5th June 2013 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 5th June 2013, 11:23 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I think you misunderstood my point. The Cardinal did not violate Canon law, though that might be arguable. But he caused a scandal among the faithful by allowing a woman who claims to be a bishop to hold a false ordination ceremony, in which men and women falsely claim to be ordained. This could cause some of the weak among Catholics to doubt the Church's teaching on women's ordination, and makes it seem as if Protestant denominations are the equivalent of Catholicism.
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Old 5th June 2013, 01:55 PM
jeromeindesert jeromeindesert is offline
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Default bishop allows liberal protestants to use RC cathedral

I am not scandalized by the Bishop's actions. If the Bishop brought scandal upon the church he can be brought up on charges under Canon law.

My guess is that Pope Francis would acquit the Bishop of any charges.

There is a subculture of homosexuality among practicing RC priests. That is what I find very scandalous. Plus, we have societal condonation of abominations such as abortion, homsexuality, pre-marital sex, same sex marriage etc etc etc.

I don't care one iota what sex the liberal protestants choose to ordain.

Its the wrong issue. The issue should be: Does that Methodist denomination support, in any way shape or form, any of the abominations I've litanized above.

If they do, they should be not allowed to use the cathedral.

To say: you liberal protestants are ordaining females & that is evil is trivial in comparison to the abominations being spread through this world. I'll bet if that Methodist denomination was analyzed, we'd find that it is condoning sinful abominations.

That should be the basis to exclude them from the cathedral.

If they were excluded on the basis of ordaining women, God would say we are straining at the gnat & letting the camel through.

I haven't heard one iota about what that Methodist church teaches about sin but I can make an educated guess that it is horrific in the sight of God.

So yes, you are right. The Methodists should not have been allowed to use the Cathedral.

However, I would base the exclusion on the Methodist position regarding sin rather than the gender of who they "ordain". (Remember, their ordinations are not recognized by the RC church. If we say that their ordination of men is not recognized under our teachings, who cares what gender they ordain. The Methodist ordinations of any persons are, per se, not recognized by us.
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Old 5th June 2013, 02:19 PM
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Canon Law # 137 also states that "if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church..." This implies that those communities must necessarily be in communion with the Catholic Church to some considerable extent. In order for their celebrations or ceremonies to be considered "worthy" in our consecrated and blessed buildings, those have to be in communion with Catholic teaching, otherwise it would be "unworthy".

Examples of what would be considered worthy:

A Pastor from another community reading, proclaiming and preaching the Word of God in light of Catholic teaching to their congregations.

A Jewish rabbi also reading and preaching the Word of God, reading or singing Psalms, the Shema Israel (Listen Israel).


What would be unworthy?:

A Pastor preaching that venerating images is idolatry, saying that the Virgin Mary did not ascend to Heaven.

Homosexual "marriages", female "priests" or "bishops" "ordaining" people, profane rituals, and the like.

So the bishops and the priests have to be aware and know what other groups or communities are going to do and perform before granting them permission to use our buildings, and do so only if what they do goes in line with Catholic dogma and teaching.

Also, according to what I have read, the Methodists group support "gay marriage" and abortion as well, this indicates that this group or community is not in full communion with the Catholic Church, or better said, it's not in communion with our Church at all, because the weight of their teachings against ours is so great, therefore, that group should not be allowed to participate in our consecrated buildings in the first place.

Would be ok to let a group who said that believe in Jesus and yet perform pagan rituals in our Churches?, of course not.

Whoever breaks one Commandment brakes them all:

[James]
{2:10} Now whoever has observed the whole law, yet who offends in one matter, has become guilty of all.

So, Jehovah Witnesses, and cults alike should not be permitted in our Churches because they are not in full communion with Catholic teaching at all.

It is a grave sin to perform unworthy rituals before God. The priestly minister is a serious matter, and it is a mortal sin to perform it according to our own ideas contrary to the will of God (Leviticus 10:1-2)

"Whoever is not with me, is against me. And whoever does not gather with me, scatters." - Jesus Christ.

Last edited by Brother : 5th June 2013 at 02:39 PM.
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  #8  
Old 5th June 2013, 03:38 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromeindesert View Post
I am not scandalized by the Bishop's actions. If the Bishop brought scandal upon the church he can be brought up on charges under Canon law.

My guess is that Pope Francis would acquit the Bishop of any charges.

A Bishop cannot be "brought up on charges" under Canon law for bringing scandal. It doesn't work that way. It is difficult, unusual, and very unlikely for a Bishop to be held accountable in the Church court system for any offense. And if a Bishop does commits the sin of scandal, this is a sin under the eternal moral law, regardless of what Canon law permits.

Jesus, in the Eucharist, in that Cathedral is offended by a woman pretending to be a bishop, and a woman pretending to be ordained by anyone. God is offended by the grave doctrinal errors which Protestants have been spreading to millions of persons for many generations.
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