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  #1  
Old 5th February 2013, 08:15 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default On the Incarnation

There a few interesting points that you might not have considered concerning the virgin conception/Incarnation of Christ.

1. The body of Jesus is solely from the body of the Virgin Mary, by the miraculous action of the Holy Spirit. Whatever was necessary to create the body of Christ was from the body of Mary, by the power of the Spirit.

2. The soul of Jesus was created directly by the Holy Spirit, just as with any human being.

3. The Divine Nature was united to the human nature of Jesus (body and soul) in the same instant as the creation of body and soul.

4. The Spirit created the body and the soul of Christ, but the Incarnation itself should be attributed to the Second Person of the Trinity, not to the Third Person. The reason is that neither the Divine Nature, nor any Person of the Trinity can be the passive object of the act of another. God is entirely active, not passive. So the Spirit did not incarnate the Word, but He incarnated himself.
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Old 6th February 2013, 04:08 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
1. The body of Jesus is solely from the body of the Virgin Mary, by the miraculous action of the Holy Spirit. Whatever was necessary to create the body of Christ was from the body of Mary, by the power of the Spirit.

So Christ might have had some physical likeness to His Mother Mary.

Now, the body of Mary is from the body of her Parents, St. Joachim and St. Anna, and this goes back to King David, to Abraham, back to Adam, to the dust of the earth. Mary, of course, did not carry original sin.

Also, we are the mystical Body of Christ, therefore, she is indeed our Mother.

And another thing, when we eat the Host, the Body of Christ in the Eucharist, we are not solely eating the body of Jesus (that came from Mary), but we are eating Jesus, our God and Saviour.

Is that correct?...
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Old 6th February 2013, 04:38 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Yes, that's all correct.

Mary is Jesus sole immediate biological ancestor, so there must have been a family resemblance.

The Eucharist is the glorified body and blood of Jesus, with his soul and Divinity -- his whole person.
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Old 9th February 2013, 10:13 PM
js1975 js1975 is offline
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Ron,

This is very interesting and really connects the creation of the soul with the incarnation of His Divine Nature. Before Jesus was incarnate within Mary, he existed in the image of himself, right? And if he already had an image, then when he was incarnate, his appearance/resemblance would have resembled himself, no? (even though when He came he was but an infant).

If that previous paragraph is not clear, what I am trying to get clarification on is that Jesus' Divine Nature had an appearance of some sort. That appearance would have manifested into his physical appearance as well. My logic is that conversely, when we leave the physical world, our souls appear just as our physical appearance is on earth (sometimes we may appear younger or older, depending on our age when we pass).

Separate question: I do not doubt that through the miraculous action of the Holy Spirit, Jesus did resemble Mary but is it speculative or Magisterial to state that what the Holy Spirit used came only from Mary?

I have occasionally pondered and thought that as Jesus ascended and vanished in front of the Apostles, he would have the ability to appear within Mary in whatever form he chooses. Right?

-Jay
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Old 10th February 2013, 01:56 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by js1975 View Post
This is very interesting and really connects the creation of the soul with the incarnation of His Divine Nature. Before Jesus was incarnate within Mary, he existed in the image of himself, right? And if he already had an image, then when he was incarnate, his appearance/resemblance would have resembled himself, no? (even though when He came he was but an infant).

If that previous paragraph is not clear, what I am trying to get clarification on is that Jesus' Divine Nature had an appearance of some sort. That appearance would have manifested into his physical appearance as well. My logic is that conversely, when we leave the physical world, our souls appear just as our physical appearance is on earth (sometimes we may appear younger or older, depending on our age when we pass).

Separate question: I do not doubt that through the miraculous action of the Holy Spirit, Jesus did resemble Mary but is it speculative or Magisterial to state that what the Holy Spirit used came only from Mary?

I have occasionally pondered and thought that as Jesus ascended and vanished in front of the Apostles, he would have the ability to appear within Mary in whatever form he chooses. Right?

-Jay

No, the Divine Nature of Jesus does not have an appearance. There was no image of Jesus in the Divine Nature.

Created things have accidents and substance. Accidents are any quality of a thing which, if it were to change, would not change the nature of the thing -- it would remain the same type of thing. Substance is what makes a thing that type of thing; if substance changes, then the thing changes into a different type of thing, its very nature changes.

God has substance, but not accidents. He is unchangeable, and every quality or attribute of God is His very Nature. Appearances are accidents. So God cannot have an appearance.

However, from all eternity, God knew what the human nature of Christ would be like.

It is a magisterial teaching that the Holy Spirit formed the body of Christ, miraculously, solely from the body of the Virgin Mary. Mary is the sole immediate ancestor of Christ. If the Spirit took material from anyone else, that person would be a biological parent. But Mary is Christ's sole biological parent.
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:14 PM
js1975 js1975 is offline
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Thank you Ron, this clears up some misunderstandings I had on the topic as a whole.
-Jay
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