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  #21  
Old 21st September 2010, 10:35 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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Ron,

this is a follow up question on the above, I do not know where the question wants to lead actually, but the thread says "honest questions on the Bible". here it is:

1. you do not have the original and that the editions that you have today contain errors, so how would you attribute its authorship to God when God doesnt err in any way shape or form?

2. According to your NT bible, where exactly did Joseph and Mary go after Jesus' birth?
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  #22  
Old 21st September 2010, 01:10 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
1. you do not have the original and that the editions that you have today contain errors, so how would you attribute its authorship to God when God doesnt err in any way shape or form?

The teachings of the Catholic Faith are from Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium.

The Holy Spirit protects the Living Tradition, so that what is handed on from generation to generation retains purity of truth, so that errors are not introduced and truths are not lost or distorted.

The Holy Spirit guides the Living Magisterium, so that the passage of time does not in any way erode the teaching of the Church. The Magisterium works in the Spirit to teach the truths of Tradition and Scripture and to guard the deposit of faith.

The Word of God in Sacred Scripture, though written, is also lived by the Church, and is protected by the Holy Spirit from erosion or degradation over time. God did not merely write the Bible. He wrote the Bible and He continues to protect its truths, so that the passage of time and the particular errors possible in any particular edition do not cause the introduction of any error, nor the loss or distortion of any truth, in Scrpture itself.

Any particular edition of the Bible is, in a sense, Scripture. But in full, Scripture is all editions, manuscripts, versions, throughout the world, not only in written form, but as these truths are lived in the Spirit, and guided by Tradition and Magisterium.

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Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
2. According to your NT bible, where exactly did Joseph and Mary go after Jesus' birth?

The NT says that they went to Egypt:

[Matthew]
{2:13} And after they had gone away, behold, an Angel of the Lord appeared in sleep to Joseph, saying: “Rise up, and take the boy and his mother, and flee into Egypt. And remain there until I tell you. For it will happen that Herod will seek the boy to destroy him.”
{2:14} And getting up, he took the boy and his mother by night, and withdrew into Egypt.
{2:15} And he remained there, until the death of Herod, in order to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: “Out of Egypt, I called my son.”
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  #23  
Old 22nd September 2010, 05:08 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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Ron.
they are looking for explanation in this verse.
They asked :

according to Matthew they went to Egypt.

but according to Luke 2:39 they did not go to Egypt, rather they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth?

So where did they really Go, to Egypt or to Galilee? Obviously, they cannot be in two places at the same time right?
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  #24  
Old 22nd September 2010, 12:26 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Blessed A.C. Emmerich says:

"The Flight into Egypt took place when Christ was nine months old."

"The Holy Family took the same way on their flight from Nazareth to Egypt."

So after Bethlehem, they went to Nazareth, just as Luke says. Then a few months later, they fled into Egypt from Nazareth.

Luke knew about Matthew's Gospel, the first to be written. Luke saw no need to repeat the same information. And he also knew that his audience (Gentiles) were not interested in the flight to Egypt, and in the return from Egypt. Matthew's audience, the Jews, saw great significance in that the Messiah was in Egypt just as the Israelites were in Egypt.
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  #25  
Old 22nd September 2010, 01:38 PM
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But Matthew is also saying that they went to their own region first (Nazareth) and then they went to Egypt.

{2:12} And having received a response in sleep that they should not return to Herod, they went back by another way to their own region.
{2:13} And after they had gone away,
behold, an Angel of the Lord appeared in sleep to Joseph, saying: “Rise up, and take the boy and his mother, and flee into Egypt. And remain there until I tell you. For it will happen that Herod will seek the boy to destroy him.”

Of course, Matthew doesn't mention the place explicitly "Nazareth" as Luke does, but he implies that they went there first.
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  #26  
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:42 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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it goes wild now how would I end it? the thread ask for honest questions in the bible. the poster is a muslim.

Blessed A.C. Emmerich says:

"The Flight into Egypt took place when Christ was nine months old."

"The Holy Family took the same way on their flight from Nazareth to Egypt."

So after Bethlehem, they went to Nazareth, just as Luke says. Then a few months later, they fled into Egypt from Nazareth.

poster said: If you dont mind, where did A.C. Emmerich take his historical basis for that?

Luke knew about Matthew's Gospel, the first to be written. Luke saw no need to repeat the same information. And he also knew that his audience (Gentiles) were not interested in the flight to Egypt, and in the return from Egypt. Matthew's audience, the Jews, saw great significance in that the Messiah was in Egypt just as the Israelites were in Egypt.

poster said: did A.C. Emmerich said that too??

If yes, then he is lying because the gospel according to matthew is not the first to be written though is put in the first part of the NT.


The first to be written among the four gospels is MARK not Matthew.


Moreover, it is an argument from silence that Luke knew about Matthew's Gospel because the new testament was not canonized yet when Luke wrote his Gospel. Furthermore, Luke was only a follower of Paul, he did not have time to go with the disciples of Jesus.

Lastly, the author of the Gospel according to Matthew is not really known. Scholars agree that the first to be written is the Gospel of Mark, and the Gospels of matthew and luke merely copied from the Gospel of Mark.

If the writer of the gospel of matthew is matthew the disciple of Jesus Christ, then it doesnt make sense that he would copy the writings of Mark because mark was not an eyewitness to Jesus, while Matthew the disciple was. matthew is supposed to know better than Mark, so it is nonsense to say that he copied the writings of mark.

So that is really a very weak response from A.C. Emmerich

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel#The_first_gospels

thanks
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  #27  
Old 23rd September 2010, 11:33 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
poster said: If you dont mind, where did A.C. Emmerich take his historical basis for that?

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich received visions from God about Jesus and Mary and the Apostles.

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Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
Luke knew about Matthew's Gospel, the first to be written. Luke saw no need to repeat the same information. And he also knew that his audience (Gentiles) were not interested in the flight to Egypt, and in the return from Egypt. Matthew's audience, the Jews, saw great significance in that the Messiah was in Egypt just as the Israelites were in Egypt.

poster said: did A.C. Emmerich said that too??

If yes, then he is lying because the gospel according to matthew is not the first to be written though is put in the first part of the NT.

The first to be written among the four gospels is MARK not Matthew.
No, that is not from Emmerich. It is my understanding from study. Scholars do not agree that Mark was the first to be written. Saint Jerome and Bishop Eusebius both state that Matthew was written first. See my articles here:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/index.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
Moreover, it is an argument from silence that Luke knew about Matthew's Gospel because the new testament was not canonized yet when Luke wrote his Gospel. Furthermore, Luke was only a follower of Paul, he did not have time to go with the disciples of Jesus.

The NT states that Paul and Luke traveled with Mark and other disciples of Christ. So Luke certainly knew about Mark's Gospel. Most scholars believe that the Synoptics are similar because the authors knew about one or more of the other Synoptics.

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Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
Lastly, the author of the Gospel according to Matthew is not really known. Scholars agree that the first to be written is the Gospel of Mark, and the Gospels of matthew and luke merely copied from the Gospel of Mark.

Scholars do not agree on those claims. Vatican II taught that the authorship of all the Gospels is Apostolic. Saint Jerome and Bishop Eusebius taught that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote the Gospels, in that order.

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Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
If the writer of the gospel of matthew is matthew the disciple of Jesus Christ, then it doesnt make sense that he would copy the writings of Mark because mark was not an eyewitness to Jesus, while Matthew the disciple was. matthew is supposed to know better than Mark, so it is nonsense to say that he copied the writings of mark.

The Gospel writers did not copy one another; they drew on a variety of different sources, including (in some cases) other Gospels.

The idea that Matthew borrowed from Mark is one opinion among scholars. But my opinion is that Matthew wrote first, so Mark was borrowing from Matthew. Mark was a disciple of Peter for many years, so he learned the Gospel from Peter. Mark also traveled with Paul, so he learned from Paul also.

Mark was young (see my explanation in my article) and Matthew was older, so it makes sense that Mark did not write a Gospel until many years later, after he had learned the Gospel from Peter and Paul and others. Matthew was a witness to Christ's ministry, so he would have written before Mark.
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  #28  
Old 25th September 2010, 09:24 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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Default continuation :Bl A.C. Emmerich

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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich received visions from God about Jesus and Mary and the Apostles.
How could we be sure that the visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich is truly from God? How do you compare her to Ellen G. White?

I smell a circular reasoning here.
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  #29  
Old 25th September 2010, 11:41 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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How could we be sure that the visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich is truly from God? How do you compare her to Ellen G. White?

I smell a circular reasoning here.

Whether or not visions are from God can be determined by the content of the visions and the life of the visionary. Emmerich's life was examined by the Church, and she was beatified by Pope John Paul II. Many of the faithful have long had a devotion to her, especially because of her visions about the Passion. The content of her visions is consistent with Catholic doctrine.

Ellen G. White (founder of Seventh Day Adventists) was a Protestant, who was married by a justice of the peace, not even by a Protestant minister. She adhered to and taught the many false doctrines of Protestants in general and of the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not familiar with the content of her many claimed visions, but if they were truly of God, then God would have corrected her many heresies. But moreover, God does not favor heretics with visions (unless to correct, like Saul on the road to Damascus).
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  #30  
Old 26th September 2010, 06:57 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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Ron.
thanks.

what is the explanation of the verse in John 19:2 Matthew 27:28

and Blessed Anne Emmerich: The cruel executioners then reconducted our Lord to Pilate’s palace, with the scarlet cloak still thrown over his shoulders, the crown of thorns on his head, and the reed in his fettered hands.

he asked:

"I wanna see now what could emerich has to say about this:

What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?"
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