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  #1  
Old 13th May 2007, 07:28 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default TS 6d: grace and mortal sin

objective mortal sin: when the act itself is so gravely morally disordered as to be seriously wrong.

actual mortal sin: when a person knowingly chooses to commit an objective mortal sin.

Many persons commit acts which are objective mortal sins, but without realizing that these acts are sinful. In such cases, the sin is still objective mortal sin, but not an actual mortal sin, due to a lack of knowledge.

Some persons might commit an objective mortal sin, but without a fully deliberate intention, so that the sin is not an actual mortal sin.

There can be various circumstances which reduce the culpability of an objective mortal sin, so that it is not an actual mortal sin. These include psychological weaknesses and mental health problems, the influence of the sinfulness of other persons, the influence of the sinfulness of the world, a lack of understanding about wrong and right due to past sinful choices, and perhaps other factors.

Persons who reject the true Catholic Faith in favor of Protestantism or Judaism or Islam or another religion, or no religion, are committing an objective mortal sin. But it may not be an actual mortal sin for that person, so they may still remain in a state of sanctifying grace and may still be saved.
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  #2  
Old 13th May 2007, 08:20 PM
CRW
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
objective mortal sin: when the act itself is so gravely morally disordered as to be seriously wrong.

Ron,

Would examples of this be a non-catholics who practices birth control and have abortions, but believes it to be just?

Cecil
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  #3  
Old 13th May 2007, 08:34 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by CRW View Post
Ron,

Would examples of this be a non-catholics who practices birth control and have abortions, but believes it to be just?

Cecil

We can never be certain in particular cases whether or not someone who commits an objective mortal sin is also committing an actual mortal sin.

Perhaps some persons are sincerely convinced that contraception or abortion is moral, so that their culpability would be reduced to something less than actual mortal sin. But I doubt that culpability in the case of abortion can be reduced to the extent of little or no actual sin. There is always some sin in anyone who chooses abortion.
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  #4  
Old 14th May 2007, 08:55 AM
Love The Fisherman
 
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Hi Ron,
In the Book of Tobit a lady killed seven husbands on her wedding nite. But she had a demon who was in love with her so this would have been an Objective Mortal Sin but not an actual mortal sin. Right?
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  #5  
Old 14th May 2007, 11:45 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Love The Fisherman View Post
Hi Ron,
In the Book of Tobit a lady killed seven husbands on her wedding nite. But she had a demon who was in love with her so this would have been an Objective Mortal Sin but not an actual mortal sin. Right?

She did not kill the husbands. The fallen angel killed them directly.
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  #6  
Old 14th May 2007, 02:14 PM
Padraig
 
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I think mortal sin goes back to where Saint James says, 'There is a sin that leads to death'. ????/

Also if a person is in a state of mortal sin is the Holy Spirit still present in some sense in the person; that the Holy Spirit doesn't fully leave us until we enter hell??
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  #7  
Old 14th May 2007, 08:01 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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When a person is in a state of actual mortal sin, then they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. However, God is still offering them graces, and they may still be accepting grace to a limited extent prior to repentance and a return to sanctifying grace.
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  #8  
Old 14th May 2007, 08:11 PM
Padraig
 
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I am not arguing Ron, but if they can still accept grace wouldn't that argue for the presence of the Spirit in some way?
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  #9  
Old 14th May 2007, 11:33 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Originally Posted by Padraig View Post
I am not arguing Ron, but if they can still accept grace wouldn't that argue for the presence of the Spirit in some way?

The Spirit is Omnipresent cause He is Eternity, who is God. Is that what you are thinking. The indwelling of the Trinity is greater than the Omnipresence of God.
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  #10  
Old 15th May 2007, 02:20 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Cool Mortal Sin: Murder

Ron, how does the Catholic Church view the taking of human life in combat during war,
normal cases of self-defence and defence of one's country in accordance with the
Geneva Convention? Murders are annonymously committed by many soldiers because
of their emotional or psychological states. But what about the soldier who kills simply
out of patriotic duty and out of complete indifference, yet with a touch of remorse
for having killed someone? Is this a case where we have an objective mortal sin (murder)
but not an actual mortal sin (self-defence)? I believe killing in self-defence is a mortal sin
for it is still an act of disobeying the Fifth Commandment of God: Thou shalt not kill. While
the person is not culpable for his act because he feared for his own life and the life of his
fellow soldiers and country.
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