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  #31  
Old 4th June 2007, 12:23 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garabandalg View Post
I have read in various places that Mary was the First Tabernacle of Our Lord in that She brought him to us within Her womb. Ron, what is your view of this idea?

Yes, it's true.

It is also true that Mary is the Mother of the Eucharist.
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  #32  
Old 5th June 2007, 07:43 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Thanks Ron, and the Eucharist must be consumed in state of grace, having repented all mortal sins with a perfect contrition or by the act of reconciliation.

I also know some Protestant who think using grape juice, they can concetrate it to become the Blood of Christ. Well, I'm now more convinced they are wrong.
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  #33  
Old 7th June 2007, 12:33 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Cool Transubstantiation

I understand that when the consecrated bread and wine transform into the body and blood
of Christ it is only the accidental properties of the species which remain, those properties
perceived by our senses. But the substance of the bread and wine - that which is not
perceived by the senses- becomes the real body and blood of Christ. Hence, Jesus becomes
really present in the Holy Eucharist in his soul and divinity and in his flesh and blood.

Ron, you say "the substance of the bread and wine are not replaced by the body and blood
of Christ." I take it you mean that the original species, the bread and wine, remain visibly
present upon the act of consecration (epiclesis) by the priest. What we now have is the
actual body and blood of Christ, but what we still percieve is the original bread and wine.

I have noticed that in the approved Eucharistic miracles in the Church the consecrated Host
never entirely transforms into actual flesh and blood, but just partially in some cases; while
in other cases blood appears on the Host. The sacramentals of bread and wine which were
chosen by our Lord do remain visibly present upon consecration of the original species.
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  #34  
Old 7th June 2007, 11:26 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Angel View Post
Ron, you say "the substance of the bread and wine are not replaced by the body and blood
of Christ." I take it you mean that the original species, the bread and wine, remain visibly
present upon the act of consecration (epiclesis) by the priest. What we now have is the
actual body and blood of Christ, but what we still percieve is the original bread and wine.

The substance of the bread and wine change into the physical part of the human nature of Christ; His soul and Divinity become present from the very same moment.
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  #35  
Old 24th February 2009, 01:24 AM
Seelos Seelos is offline
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Questions about the Liturgy and the Eucharist specifically. I have been listening to a podcast with Cardinal Arinze, he is the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, so I take it that when it comes to the sacraments and Liturgy the guy knows what he is talking about.

First he was discussing that Christ is present in both the bread and the wine and that when a person recieves one they recieve the whole Christ. He then goes on to refer to in certain cases when it is deemed necessary the communicants will only receive the Eucharist and not the Cup. The example that he gave for this was if there is a mass taking place with a large amount of people. He then said that if the Bishop decides that they may receive under both species the following is in order:

The wine before consecration should not be consecrated in a large pitcher and then poured out into the individual Chalices, it should be poured out first into the chalices and then consecrated. This is to avoid the spilling of the Lords blood which would be a grave matter.

He mentioned other things as well but this is what I have been questioning. The Priest at the Church I attend seems to do the exact opposite, I assumed that there is no harm if all is done with care and nothing is spilled, but after observing more closely it just doesn't feel right.

He divides the blood into different cups for the EM's to distribute, he then breaks the bread and places them into small plastic containers for the EM's to distribute as well, this is all done after consecration and I noticed him continually wiping his hands on his side after breaking the communion hosts and transferring them to each of those containers. Him wiping his hand on his side bothered me very much though.
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  #36  
Old 24th February 2009, 04:09 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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This is a great thread.
First, letís pray for all the incorrect actions taken by Priests, Deacons and laity when they deal with the Body of Christ and the Most Precious Blood.
I can't even begin to tell you the things I have seen. I was a Sexton at age 13 and was unaware until recently at the incorrect handling and purification of the ciborium, patents and chalices.

Ron, could you please weigh in on why no water is used for the congregations cups filled with wine. I know that water is not a must for consecration but I was under the impression that it was grandfathered from the council of Trent and that Jews always put some water in the wine and we just assume Christ did. also that the water symbolizes the people and also water and blood came out of Christís side. I thought that the Vatican stated that even though lack of water does not invalidate the consecration....and i quote "IT MUST NEVER BE OMITTED" why then do they omit it for the congregationísí cups. Also I still see the DIPPING method which I never liked. I thought there was a ruling on that as well.
.
John
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  #37  
Old 24th February 2009, 12:10 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Canon Law on the subject
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3A.HTM

There are many liturgical abuses in the Church today.
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  #38  
Old 24th February 2009, 07:06 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Can. 924 ß1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.

Pretty Straight Forward. I quess even the congregations wine should be mixed with water, as I thought.

I still dont understand how the non-water Priests and Deacons justify that.

I notice this lack of use of water to be more the norm in all Churches I visit.

Can anyone else weigh in on what happens at their church during the concecration? Do they put water in the congregations cups when the administer under both species?
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  #39  
Old 24th February 2009, 11:21 PM
VKallin VKallin is offline
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Default We do use water

Our parish only distributes communion under one form (the bread). The argument is that all consecrated wine must be consumed and cannot be stored. It is very difficult to estimate the amount of wine to consecrate and they either run out......or they have a very large quantity of win left over which must be consumed by the priest.

Our priests do mix water with the wine for the consecration, however.
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  #40  
Old 25th February 2009, 01:14 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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I've never seen the amount of wine ever being an issue. What should happen is a number of stations are defined, lets say 4. This is all provding there are enough EM's. The cups are filled at the alter. Then people drink. If the blood runs out, then it runs out. If not than either the last person or the EM finishes it.

My question is very specific about if water is added to the congregations cups, not the Priest's Chalice.

I would like to know about when both are given if the Priest or Deacons put water.

Maybe its just a Brooklyn/Queens Diocese issue. We do have our problems here!

Can you all say a prayer for our new ArchBishop that will be installed here in March.
Thanks
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