CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Catholicism > the Church
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 9th April 2016, 03:50 AM
4unborn 4unborn is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hereford(Shrine of Our Lady of the Sierras), Arizona
Posts: 35
Angry Apostolic Exhortation, "Amoris Laetitia"

Catholics who persist in an objectively serious sinful state cannot receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church of Pope Francis has changed doctrine by allowing bishops to decide if the divorced and remarried can receive Holy Communion. We now have a schism.

The rock upon which Jesus Christ found the Catholic Church was Peter, not all the apostles. In his apostolic exhortation Pope Francis warns about throwing stones at people’s lives. He has broken the rock and is throwing its pieces at us.

I call upon Cardinal Burke to lead the true Catholic Church.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 9th April 2016, 04:31 AM
Jose Jose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Safety Area
Posts: 249
Default schism indeed

We have a church full of homosexual priests and bishops, lukewarm on almost everything that are true church teachings. I see no Holy Spirit working within the Church, only decay and deafening silence. It is rotting, and Islam will conquer most of the Christian west. Read Katherine Emmerich visions on today's present Church. This schism is not from outsiders, but the lukewarm clergy that has gutted the Church for the last 50 years. If Hell is not to prevail, the Good Lord needs to start quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 9th April 2016, 11:53 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,747
Default

Amoris Laetitia does not say that the divorced and remarried should be admitted to Communion. He says that each bishop has responsibility to decide if a marriage should be given an annulment.

"Naturally, if someone flaunts an objective sin as if it were part of the Christian ideal, or wants to impose something other than what the Church teaches, he or she can in no way presume to teach or preach to others; this is a case of something which separates from the community (cf. Mt 18:17). Such a person needs to listen once more to the Gospel message and its call to conversion."

{18:17} And if he will not listen to them, tell the Church. But if he will not listen to the Church, let him be to you like the pagan and the tax collector.

No Pope can ever commit the sins of apostasy, or heresy, or schism, since the Church is indefectible, and the Pope is head of the Church.

4born, if you reject Pope Francis as the valid head of the Church on earth, you cannot be a member of this group.

Jose, the Church is in a dire state today, because of grave sins by many of its members. But it cannot be true that there is "no Holy Spirit working within the Church, only decay and deafening silence." The Church is indefectible, despite being comprised of so many sinners.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 9th April 2016, 01:40 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,747
Default

Quote of a good comment on an unfortunate post at Fr. Z.'s blog:

"This is my take on Pope Francis and the recent apostolic exhortation..

"I personally believe that we have a Pope. He may not be the Pope that we all wanted, but he is our Pope. What shall we do? Well, we can decide to hammer and flay him, we can decide to ignore what he proclaims, we can read and reflect, we can just check out. I refuse to most of all of the above. My inclination is to take a big, deep, breath, exhale, and praise God. This is what we as Catholic Christians must accept as we work our way towards our final destination. It is what is is.
Peace and God bless,

"Gordon Jewett"
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2016/04/amori...here/#comments
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 9th April 2016, 08:19 PM
4unborn 4unborn is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hereford(Shrine of Our Lady of the Sierras), Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

Pope Francis was validly elected pope. Therefore, he is the valid head of the Church on earth.

The Church is indefectible, but the head of the Church is not impeccable.

I agree that Amoris Laetitia does not say that the divorced and remarried should be admitted to Communion. However, in a footnote to paragraph 305 he states that in certain cases the divorced and remarried can receive the Eucharist.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 9th April 2016, 08:57 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4unborn View Post
However, in a footnote to paragraph 305 he states that in certain cases the divorced and remarried can receive the Eucharist.

It doesn't exactly say that.

305. For this reason, a pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in “irregular” situations, as if they were stones to throw at people’s lives. This would bespeak the closed heart of one used to hiding behind the Church’s teachings, “sitting on the chair of Moses and judging at times with superiority and superficiality difficult cases and wounded families”. Along these same lines, the International Theological Commission has noted that “natural law could not be presented as an already established set of rules that impose themselves a priori on the moral subject; rather, it is a source of objective inspiration for the deeply personal process of making decisions”. Because of forms of conditioning and mitigating factors, it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God’s grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end.[351] Discernment must help to find possible ways of responding to God and growing in the midst of limits. By thinking that everything is black and white, we sometimes close off the way of grace and of growth, and discourage paths of sanctification which give glory to God. Let us remember that “a small step, in the midst of great human limitations, can be more pleasing to God than a life which appears outwardly in order, but moves through the day without confronting great difficulties”. The practical pastoral care of ministers and of communities must not fail to embrace this reality.

[351] In certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments. Hence, “I want to remind priests that the confessional must not be a torture chamber, but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium [24 November 2013], 44: AAS 105 [2013], 1038). I would also point out that the Eucharist “is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak” (ibid., 47: 1039).

-- So it doesn't specify divorced are remarried, and it says "the help of the sacraments". Then confession is mentioned first, and subsequently the Eucharist.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 9th April 2016, 09:08 PM
4unborn 4unborn is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hereford(Shrine of Our Lady of the Sierras), Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

Yes, but it does open the door for the divorced and remarried to receive the Eucharist. Pope John Paul II rejected opening the door under any circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 9th April 2016, 10:44 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,747
Default

The Pope has the authority to decide the question. You are free to disagree.

{16:19} And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven.”
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 9th April 2016, 10:54 PM
4unborn 4unborn is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Hereford(Shrine of Our Lady of the Sierras), Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

The Pope does not have the authority to change doctrine.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10th April 2016, 01:37 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,747
Default

He has the authority to decide what is and is not doctrine. And he can change discipline. Who may receive Communion is part doctrine and part discipline.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.