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  #1  
Old 13th July 2008, 01:30 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default TS 18: Tradition

If enough members are interested, we can discuss the definition of Tradition, and how one might draw upon Tradition in order to learn truths of the Faith.

Please read this article, and pose any questions you may have:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/in...-tradition.htm
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Old 13th July 2008, 02:23 PM
Jeanne D'Arc
 
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Ron, I would be very interested. As I read the posts of everyone, I am at a loss as to how to keep up. Although I am not posting everyday I am learning and voraciously reading each and every post. I am waaaaaay behind everyone else in their understanding and comfort level. Teach on!!
Joan
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  #3  
Old 13th July 2008, 02:54 PM
Pontifex Pontifex is offline
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I would certainly be interested as I would like to better understand the relation between oral tradition and the revealed truths in the Bible and that between the living magisterium and the inspired Scriptures.
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Old 13th July 2008, 03:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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OK, members who are interested should read the article, then post their comments and questions.

Sacred Tradition is not an oral tradition.
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Old 13th July 2008, 07:17 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Ron,

You have said that Tradition comes first, and Scripture second, implying that first God makes a deed, and then this is recorded in Scripture, which is generally true.
However I notice that sometimes the opposite happens, that is first a prophecy is recorded in Scripture and then the deed happens after a certain amount of time (years or centuries). For example the return of Christ is a deed for the salvation of mankind, yet this return has been already explicitly reported in Scripture, but has not happened yet. So is it correct to say that the Tradition does not always come before Scripture, at least in a chronological way? I suppose that this is true from a human perspective, but from God's point of view it's like all Tradition has occurred already.
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Old 13th July 2008, 08:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Ron,

You have said that Tradition comes first, and Scripture second, implying that first God makes a deed, and then this is recorded in Scripture, which is generally true.
However I notice that sometimes the opposite happens, that is first a prophecy is recorded in Scripture and then the deed happens after a certain amount of time (years or centuries). For example the return of Christ is a deed for the salvation of mankind, yet this return has been already explicitly reported in Scripture, but has not happened yet. So is it correct to say that the Tradition does not always come before Scripture, at least in a chronological way? I suppose that this is true from a human perspective, but from God's point of view it's like all Tradition has occurred already.

Interesting point. But when a prophecy in Scripture predicts a future event, the revelation (which is itself a deed) of that prophecy to the prophet precedes its inspired writing. So it is always true that Tradition precedes Scripture, i.e. that a deed of God precedes the word of God.

I like your comment that from God's point of view, the predicted event is logically prior (even if not chronologically prior) to the prophecy of that event. God is predicting what has, from His point of view beyond time, already occurred. Also true.
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Old 13th July 2008, 11:45 PM
Arax Arax is offline
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Interesting article. As I was reading it I was reminded of a topic I would like some clarification on. Perhaps this is not the proper place to ask, but is there an existing thread on the topic "Outside the Church there is no salvation"? If not I would be grateful to see one started.

I have always thought of this as something like, "without" the Church, or "except for" the Church, since it is certainly possible for God to save someone who is not a practicing member of the Catholic Church. I understand that any baptized Christian is actually a member of the Church and that others can be baptized by blood or by desire, but I still don't feel entirely confident if I were asked to explain all of this.
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Old 14th July 2008, 05:25 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Ron,

What are some ways a person can draw from Tradition in order to learn the truths of the Faith?
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  #9  
Old 14th July 2008, 05:43 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Tradition is the deeds of God in salvation history, and the preeminent deed is the salvific act of Christ on the Cross. Whenever we carry our crosses in our lives, we help to transmit Tradition. We also transmit Tradition by word, when we explain the Way of Christ to others.

The lives of the Saints and Blesseds and martyrs can be cited as examples in order to make a theological argument based on Tradition. We can learn from their example by reading about their deeds in their lives, which are like the deeds of Christ.

The words of the Fathers, Doctors, and Saints of the Church help to transmit Tradition (but those words are not Tradition itself). So those words can be cited in an argument based on Tradition, and can be a way to learn from Tradition. So read what the Fathers, Doctors, and Saints wrote.

We can learn from the spiritual life of the Church, which is yet another way that Tradition is transmitted, by reading about the history of the Church. For example, the TS on the Ecumenical Councils teaches us from Tradition.
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  #10  
Old 14th July 2008, 07:39 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Salvation is found in Tradition, since Jesus' death on the cross is God's main Salvific Act, and that is a deed wrought direcly by God.
How do others faiths or religions access Tradition if they have never heard about saints, doctors, or Christ?
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