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  #11  
Old 14th July 2008, 05:25 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Ron,

What are some ways a person can draw from Tradition in order to learn the truths of the Faith?
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  #12  
Old 14th July 2008, 05:43 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Tradition is the deeds of God in salvation history, and the preeminent deed is the salvific act of Christ on the Cross. Whenever we carry our crosses in our lives, we help to transmit Tradition. We also transmit Tradition by word, when we explain the Way of Christ to others.

The lives of the Saints and Blesseds and martyrs can be cited as examples in order to make a theological argument based on Tradition. We can learn from their example by reading about their deeds in their lives, which are like the deeds of Christ.

The words of the Fathers, Doctors, and Saints of the Church help to transmit Tradition (but those words are not Tradition itself). So those words can be cited in an argument based on Tradition, and can be a way to learn from Tradition. So read what the Fathers, Doctors, and Saints wrote.

We can learn from the spiritual life of the Church, which is yet another way that Tradition is transmitted, by reading about the history of the Church. For example, the TS on the Ecumenical Councils teaches us from Tradition.
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  #13  
Old 14th July 2008, 07:39 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Salvation is found in Tradition, since Jesus' death on the cross is God's main Salvific Act, and that is a deed wrought direcly by God.
How do others faiths or religions access Tradition if they have never heard about saints, doctors, or Christ?
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  #14  
Old 14th July 2008, 09:59 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Salvation is found in Tradition, since Jesus' death on the cross is God's main Salvific Act, and that is a deed wrought direcly by God.
How do others faiths or religions access Tradition if they have never heard about saints, doctors, or Christ?

The Old Testament time period also has deeds of God in salvation history, including creation of the universe (which is apparent to all), creation of mankind, and the various OT events.
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  #15  
Old 22nd July 2008, 04:52 PM
Pontifex Pontifex is offline
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Ron, are the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement to be considered the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation ? Are these truths found outside of the Sacred Deposit of Faith and cannot be taught by either the Sacred Magisterium or the Ordinary Magisterium ?
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  #16  
Old 22nd July 2008, 04:55 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex View Post
Ron, are the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement to be considered the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation ? Are these truths found outside of the Sacred Deposit of Faith and cannot be taught by either the Sacred Magisterium or the Ordinary Magisterium ?

In my opinion, the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement are all found in Sacred Scripture. Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium all teach one and the same Truth, just as Father, Son, Spirit share one and the same Nature. So I would say yes, these are deeds of salvation history.
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  #17  
Old 22nd July 2008, 05:02 PM
Pontifex Pontifex is offline
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How then must we understand the the fact that the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation must actually have occurred ?
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  #18  
Old 22nd July 2008, 05:12 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex View Post
How then must we understand the the fact that the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation must actually have occurred ?

Some events are first predicted by Sacred Scripture, then they occur, such as the birth of the Savior of a virgin. But all of Scripture proceeds from Tradition, because God is beyond Time. When an event is mentioned first in Scripture, and then occurs later in Tradition, the event is still logically prior to its description. God does not really predict what will happen, rather He describes what has already happened in the future, since He is in Eternity.
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  #19  
Old 22nd July 2008, 05:31 PM
Pontifex Pontifex is offline
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Is it necessary that the deeds wrought by God, such as the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement, be found literally or figuratively in Sacred Scripture ?
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  #20  
Old 22nd July 2008, 05:34 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex View Post
Is it necessary that the deeds wrought by God, such as the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement, be found literally or figuratively in Sacred Scripture ?

There are two levels to Scripture:

1: words referring to things (literally or figuratively)
2: things referrring to other things (the spiritual level)

Many of the predictions in the OT about Christ are at the second level in the OT, but in the NT, they are then in the first level.

It is not necessary for a truth to be at the first level; a truth could be at either level.
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