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  #1  
Old 23rd February 2012, 12:33 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Anti-Catholic Catholics

Chris Matthews
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/02/chris...olic-catholic/

WHITLOCK: Earlier tonight, you were talking about Nixon and the Southern Strategy and bigotry and things like that you and you said, quote, ďIf youíre really anti-gay, you become a Catholic now.Ē [Audience laughs.] I was wondering if you were saying that bigots become Catholic now and if you wanted to expand or apologize for that? [Audience laughs.]

MATTHEWS: I think there are people who have chosen to convert to the Catholic faith because they donít like the liberal positions taken by their sectarian groups. Thatís a fact. So, you can write that down. No, you can write that down.

WHITLOCK: So, youíre saying Catholicism is drawing bigots? Is that what youíre saying?

MATTHEWS: Iím saying that some people who are bigoted against gay people have changed religions. Yes. You got it right.
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Old 24th February 2012, 01:47 AM
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this is only the beginning. I just ended a close friendship over the abortion issue. This person was throttling feminism crap down my throat and saying we worked to long for this for the GOP to take this away....
DONE, I don't need friends like this. Not even horribly upset about it either.
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  #3  
Old 24th February 2012, 04:26 AM
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Sacredcello Sacredcello is offline
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Sorry about your former friend, Donna. Sounds like you did the right thing.

Speaking of anti-Catholic Catholics and friendship.... I attend an ecumenical Bible fellowship with Protestants (don't ask why I agreed to this torture). One of them is a fallen-away Catholic who is now Episcopalian who shared how angry she is about the current political events. She didn't say what she meant specifically, but it was clear that she was referring to the uproar over the HHS Mandate and now Santorum taking the lead in the GOP.

I am mixed about going back to this group. These people are my friends whom I have gotten to know over the last 6 months, but I abhor their political and religious beliefs. I really don't care for Bible study without reference to Church teaching. It grates on my nerves very badly. But, there may be one good thing that has come from it which is that one of the couples has inquired about our NFP class and has borrowed my book. They are Romanian Orthodox and she says that they don't have NFP classes available in their country, even though everyone knows the teaching against contraception. So, if only for this reason, I suppose it is good to continue with the group.
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Old 24th February 2012, 04:47 AM
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Default Anti-Catholic Catholics in Germany

"A call by reform-minded Catholics in the German-speaking world for the church to soften its stances on homosexuality, divorce and celibacy among priests and to end its ban on women in the clergy is drawing loud criticism from conservatives. They argue the group is threatening to create a schism within the Catholic Church."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...816528,00.html

Is this the beginning of the Great Apostasy?
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  #5  
Old 24th February 2012, 12:53 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I think that the roots of the great apostasy are very deep and very broad. This has been building for a long time. There is no fix except to expel apostates and heretics from the Church.

The contraception mandate is probably part of God's Providence in preparing for the great apostasy. It is very unusual that contraception would become a top issue in a Presidential election. No one predicted it. The next step is for the Pope (perhaps the next Pope) and the Bishops to address the fact that many Catholics use contraception and many do not believe the Church's teaching on contraception and abortion and other issues.

Since it is heresy to reject the already infallible teaching of the Church against contraception, abortion, gay marriage, and various sexual sins, those who call themselves Catholic will be forced to choose: change your believes and practices, or leave the Church.

Many have already departed from the Church in their hearts and minds. They are Catholic in name only.
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Old 24th February 2012, 02:35 PM
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I apologize for my crabby post yesterday. But, I do have a question related to it about the topic of abortion.

In my Bible fellowship group, there is a Jewish convert to main-line Protestantism. She informed us that the Jewish belief is that whenever the life of the mother is at risk, it is morally required to perform an abortion, rather than risk the life of the mother. Therefore, we should keep abortion legal, because not everyone in our country is Catholic. This person is a professor at Notre Dame University, by the way.
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Old 24th February 2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacredcello View Post
She informed us that the Jewish belief is that whenever the life of the mother is at risk, it is morally required to perform an abortion, rather than risk the life of the mother. Therefore, we should keep abortion legal, because not everyone in our country is Catholic. This person is a professor at Notre Dame University, by the way.

Hi Sacredcello,

You could tell that lady that abortion is not a matter of denominations or group "opinions", but a matter of facts - human right facts.

It is gravely immoral to kill an innocent human being and it has been scientifically proven that, since conception, a person (embryo) usually has his 46 chromosomes, same number of chromosomes as an adult.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_c... ertilization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome

With this we know how the person is going to look, - tall, short, blond, brunette, etc.

We have to defend the rights of the defenseless person, the unborn baby.

In case of rape, just because a misfit man abuses a girl, are we going to punish the innocent baby? Punish the man, but not the baby. If the woman doesn't like the baby she can always give him to adoption.

In case of mother a risk, the mother is sick, so to cure the mother, are we going to deliberately kill a baby?, a healthy baby?

In case a person doesn't know if an embryo is a person or not (for whatever reason), so just because he is not sure, is going to kill what may be a human being?, if he does so, is guilty of murder. Just as if a hunter in the woods trying to hunt deer and then sees some bushes moving, but doesnít know what is behind, if he shoots anyway without first making sure what is behind and then finds out that he has killed a human person, he is guilty of murder.

When someone kills an innocent person is guilty of murder, that's a fact, this is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact and the state has to safeguard and protect his citizens.
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Old 24th February 2012, 04:39 PM
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Brother,

I agree with all of your points. However, this person claims the authority of the Jewish faith, having been raised Jewish herself. I had never heard this claim before....that it was morally required to save the mother (by killing the baby) in the Jewish tradition.

I've made my position known that the unborn have the right to life. It just burns me up that there are Christians (in my Bible study!) who hold these positions toward the innocent. They talk about "right-wing extremists", etc.

I really am torn about whether to return to the Bible study, except that at least one couple has expressed interest in taking our NFP class. Our next meeting is in two weeks, so I'll have to pray for discernment.
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Old 24th February 2012, 05:04 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacredcello View Post
In my Bible fellowship group, there is a Jewish convert to main-line Protestantism. She informed us that the Jewish belief is that whenever the life of the mother is at risk, it is morally required to perform an abortion, rather than risk the life of the mother. Therefore, we should keep abortion legal, because not everyone in our country is Catholic. This person is a professor at Notre Dame University, by the way.

I think that claim is a distortion of Jewish teaching. Jewish scholars do not generally admit that certain acts are intrinsically evil -- although this truth is certainly implied by OT prohibitions on certain kinds of acts (murder, adultery, bearing false witness). However, even in a system of morality that allows any act to be committed if the good outweighs the bad (i.e. proportionalism), some risk to the life of the mother is not sufficient to make the abortion moral, nor certainly a moral requirement. The death of any human being is a bad consequence, and so if the risk to the life of the mother is limited, this would have to be weighed against the certain death of the prenatal by the abortion.

It is not simply true, even in non-Catholic systems of morality, that any risk to the mother morally requires an abortion. Can the mother not morally choose to accept some increase in risk to her own life, in order to bring new life into the world?

For example, a woman is pregnant with her first child, and she has cancer of the uterus. She might assume some risk to her own life, to some limited degree, to try to bring the prenatal to viability. Then the physician could deliver the child and remove the cancerous uterus in one operation. If the cancer is not advancing rapidly, and the prenatal is close to viability, the additional risk to the mother is worth taking to save the child's life. Also, in such a case, it is the woman's only chance to give birth to her own child. Afterward, due to the removal of the cancerous uterus, she would not be able to conceive.

Every pregnancy includes some risk to the life of the mother. Is every pregnant woman required to get an abortion because of this risk? Many women have health issues that increase, only moderately, the risk of death if they get pregnant. Are they all obliged never to have children, or to end every pregnancy with abortion? The idea is absurd.

Also, if we applied the same moral thinking to other situations, we see that it does not hold true. For it would imply that no one can risk their life for the sake of the life of another. It would then be immoral for anyone to be a lifeguard, or a police officer, or a soldier, or to speak out against injustice if there were a risk of death (MLK comes to mind).

So this claim that any risk to the life of the mother obligates her to get an abortion is not really the position of any coherent ethical system, Jewish, Protestant, or otherwise.
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  #10  
Old 25th February 2012, 01:24 PM
Dan A Dan A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
The contraception mandate is probably part of God's Providence in preparing for the great apostasy. It is very unusual that contraception would become a top issue in a Presidential election. No one predicted it.

I think that is correct. It was a non-issue before but it has been thrown out as one of the biggest issues of our time. I would point out that those of the pro-death movement know they cannot get any traction when they mention abortion. Most people are opposed to it and realize a life is being taken. Contraception is a different manner and if they can convince enough people that the Church is prohibiting contraception by actively removing contraception tools from people, then they can continue to promote their agenda. The point that needs to be offered back to them is: Who is promoting/protecting life and who is promoting/ensuring death?

It is amazing to read pre-war Germany and see the same tactics used today in our country.
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