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  #41  
Old 26th January 2011, 02:15 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
this question is taken from Christopher Hitchens, the atheist evangelist and prophet.

http://graceandmiracles.blogspot.com...n-immoral.html

Is it ethical or moral to let other people die so that one's sin is cleansed? Is vicarious salvation moral? Is the death/approval of Jesus(sinless) to die for the sins of others moral.

Atheists see death as the end. But Christians see death as only the beginning. The death of Jesus led to His Resurrection and Ascension. So it was not immoral for Him to accept death, nor for God to send Him to die, nor for us to receive salvation from His death and Resurrection.

And salvation is not merely from His death, but from His death and Resurrection:

[1 Corinthians 15]
{15:12} Now if Christ is preached, that he rose again from the dead, how is it that some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
{15:13} For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not risen.
{15:14} And if Christ has not risen, then our preaching is useless, and your faith is also useless.
{15:15} Then, too, we would be found to be false witnesses of God, because we would have given testimony against God, saying that he had raised up Christ, when he had not raised him up, if, indeed, the dead do not rise again.
{15:16} For if the dead do not rise again, then neither has Christ risen again.
{15:17} But if Christ has not risen, then your faith is vain; for you would still be in your sins.
{15:18} Then, too, those who have fallen asleep in Christ would have perished.
{15:19} If we have hope in Christ for this life only, then we are more miserable than all men.
{15:20} But now Christ has risen again from the dead, as the first-fruits of those who sleep.
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  #42  
Old 26th January 2011, 08:33 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
this question is taken from Christopher Hitchens, the atheist evangelist and prophet.

http://graceandmiracles.blogspot.com...n-immoral.html

Is it ethical or moral to let other people die so that one's sin is cleansed? Is vicarious salvation moral? Is the death/approval of Jesus(sinless) to die for the sins of others moral.

If someone freely is able to die or accept death out of love for others with a good reason, then it is ethical and moral as long as there are no sin involved in the act or set of acts.

If someone doesn't want to die for another person's welfare, or if his love for that other person is not that strong enough, then he doesn't have to either risk his life or die.

Jesus Christ freely wanted to die on the Cross out of love of us, for our redemtion. His reason for doing that was very important to Him, the redemtion of all mankind, it was not a mere folly decision with no good purpose either. His love for us is most pure and is shown on the Cross. Jesus Christ was not obligated or "pushed" to die for us. Objectors may say, yea, but "He was tortured and nailed on the Cross"; yes, but He knew what was going to happen to him beforehand and also, He is GOD, He could have easily escaped those sufferings if He wanted to.

And as Ron said, this world is not all there is. Jesus Christ wanted us to share eternal life with Him in Heaven, not death.

Last edited by Brother : 26th January 2011 at 08:54 PM.
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  #43  
Old 9th January 2012, 10:16 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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How is that one day you take an egg, crack it open and a gelatinous substance (known as yolk - a single cell - and egg white) comes out.

But if you take an egg, and put it in an incubator for about a month (20 to 30 days) in a temperature of 120 F, a tweeting bird comes out!

What is that? Magic?

No, there is a Wise Creator known as God.




http://howtoincubate.com/
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  #44  
Old 10th January 2012, 05:48 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother View Post
How is that one day you take an egg, crack it open and a gelatinous substance (known as yolk - a single cell - and egg white) comes out.

But if you take an egg, and put it in an incubator for about a month (20 to 30 days) in a temperature of 120 F, a tweeting bird comes out!

What is that? Magic?

No, there is a Wise Creator known as God.




http://howtoincubate.com/

Yea, and ive always wondered how it does not breath at all but is alive and then it cracks the shell and starts to breath but if you held its beak for a minute it would die of suffocation. The timing is sooo amazing. Its called God!
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  #45  
Old 10th January 2012, 02:34 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Originally Posted by TheGiftOfLife View Post
Yea, and ive always wondered how it does not breath at all but is alive and then it cracks the shell and starts to breath but if you held its beak for a minute it would die of suffocation. The timing is sooo amazing. Its called God!

Yes, that's amazing! the bird is so compressed inside the egg.... God is an Artist.

Some atheists say that they don't believe in God because they don't "see" Him. But you don't necessarily have to "see" Him in order to know that there is a God. For example, a person sees a beautiful painting, the Mona Lisa (if you like it ), then the person says, "Wow!, what a talented person whoever painted this!", you don't necessarily have to have met, seen or known Leonardo daVinci in order to know that there was "someone", "somebody", who did that work! The same way, by contemplating nature one realizes how Wise was that "SomeOne" Who created the world... and it is still creating it!, the stars, the universe, creatures, etc., everything so perfectly synchronized, or as you say Gift, "with so amazing timing!". That is not "chance", not in a million times.

Last edited by Brother : 10th January 2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  #46  
Old 11th January 2012, 12:05 AM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Atheists see death as the end. But Christians see death as only the beginning. The death of Jesus led to His Resurrection and Ascension. So it was not immoral for Him to accept death, nor for God to send Him to die, nor for us to receive salvation from His death and Resurrection.

And salvation is not merely from His death, but from His death and Resurrection:

[1 Corinthians 15]
{15:12} Now if Christ is preached, that he rose again from the dead, how is it that some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
{15:13} For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not risen.
{15:14} And if Christ has not risen, then our preaching is useless, and your faith is also useless.
{15:15} Then, too, we would be found to be false witnesses of God, because we would have given testimony against God, saying that he had raised up Christ, when he had not raised him up, if, indeed, the dead do not rise again.
{15:16} For if the dead do not rise again, then neither has Christ risen again.
{15:17} But if Christ has not risen, then your faith is vain; for you would still be in your sins.
{15:18} Then, too, those who have fallen asleep in Christ would have perished.
{15:19} If we have hope in Christ for this life only, then we are more miserable than all men.
{15:20} But now Christ has risen again from the dead, as the first-fruits of those who sleep.

I guess that by their own definition, atheists' tenure is shorter than that of believers!
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  #47  
Old 23rd January 2012, 08:07 AM
ExCelciuS ExCelciuS is offline
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Default The Fruit of the Holy Spirit

For atheist and other religions:
Quote:
Galatians 5:22-25
{5:22} But the fruit of the Spirit is charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, forbearance,
{5:23} meekness, faith, modesty, abstinence, chastity. There is no law against such things.
{5:24} For those who are Christ’s have crucified their flesh, along with its vices and desires.
{5:25} If we live by the Spirit, we should also walk by the Spirit.

You do that, you already Christian in Spirit, even if you deny Jesus in your mind and heart and tongue, but if you do that, the fruits of The Holy Spirit, your spirit has already accept Jesus, and spirit is greater than physical being, as simple as that.

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