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  #11  
Old 25th July 2017, 05:14 PM
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In the related post called "Why believe in God?"
http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/...ead.php?t=6058

I posted an example of a magician making "appear" a rabbit out of a hat. If this performance is a trick, which is done naturally by men in order to entertain, there is nothing wrong with its moral object, tricks are not intrinsically evil so its morality depends on the intention of the person and the circumstances. St. John Bosco is said to perform "magic tricks" in order to entertain children. No natural law is broken when a person performs a magic trick, so this is in no way a "miracle", even if this appears to be wonderful.

Unfortunately, through thousands of years, some people have been performing apparent wonders with the help of fallen angels. When people do magic by means of sorcery, incantations or certain secrets in order to get assistance from fallen angels, this is intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral regardless of the intention or the circumstances. The moral object is evil, so the act is immoral even if there is a "good" intention to entertain, or a dire circumstance such as to save the live of a person, the act remains immoral.

When an apparent wonder is performed by a fallen angel or with the assistance of a fallen angel, this is not a miracle either. Some of the things that fallen angels can do may seen as something wonderful to us poor humans who are far inferior to the capabilities of fallen angels and can not even generally see them. The acts performed within the capabilities of fallen angels which surpasses our natural abilities but do not reach the Supernatural (from God) are called "preternatural".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preternatural
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  #12  
Old 25th July 2017, 05:57 PM
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The signs performed by fallen angels or by humans with the assistance of fallen angels can some times mimic true miracles from God, but their signs are limited.

[Exodus]
{7:10} And so Moses and Aaron entered to Pharaoh, and they did just as the Lord had commanded. And Aaron took the staff in the sight of Pharaoh and his servants, and it was turned into a snake.
{7:11} Then Pharaoh called the wise men and the sorcerers. And they also, by Egyptian incantations and certain secrets, did similarly.
{7:12} And each one cast down their staffs, and they were turned into serpents. But the staff of Aaron devoured their staffs.

The sign performed by Moses and Aaron was a true miracle, a Supernatural sign, but the sorcerers of the Pharaoh performed a similar sign, not Supernatural, but by preternatural means, with the help of fallen angels for they did it, not by any human trickery which could not have possible be done this way, but by something that goes beyond our natural ability, by the intrinsically evil and gravely immoral act of "sorcery, incantations and certain secrets" which is nothing more than calling upon devils.

But, like said above, the abilities of fallen angels (or any angel) are limited for they too are finite creatures. Only God is Eternal and therefore, unlimited.

Notice that the sorcerers of the Pharaoh continued mimicking the Supernatural signs done by God through Moses (Exodus 8:7...) but only until certain extent. When Aaron struck the dust of the earth and it became stinging insects through all the land of Egypt, the sorcerers could not replicate so.

{8:18} And the sorcerers, with their incantations, did similarly, in order to bring forth stinging insects, but they were not able. And there were stinging insects, as much on men as on beasts.
{8:19} And the sorcerers said to Pharaoh: “This is the finger of God.” And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had instructed

{9:11} Neither could the sorcerers stand in the sight of Moses, because of the sores that were on them and on all the land of Egypt.
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  #13  
Old 25th July 2017, 06:00 PM
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So we know that the signs done by a person performing evil incantations have its limits, there are things which they cannot possible do, even with the help of the greatest of demons.

In Acts of the Apostles (8:9-25) we see a man called Simon performing magic and apparent wonders, but they were also limited, his signs were in no way Supernatural, so they were not true miracles in any way.

Some of the signs that fallen angels can do are levitate people, make appear and disappear something, turn something into something else, transport people or things to other places (The human nature of Jesus Himself was transported by the devil (Matthew 4:8 )). These, among other signs, are things that false prophets and sorcerers have done with the assistance of fallen angels.

Even though fallen angels have lost grace, they retain their abilities of angels, and angels can transport people to other places (Genesis 19:15-17) (Daniel 14:35). Since fallen angels cannot be seen, they can assist a sorcerer to give the impression that the person is levitating or "flying", give them information which cannot possible be known by human capacity, among other things.

Going back to the Gospel, the Pharisees knew that some wonders can be done with the assistance of fallen angels, for they accused Jesus of doing so.

[Matthew]
{12:24} But the Pharisees, hearing it, said, “This man does not cast out demons, except by Beelzebub, the prince of the demons.”

But Jesus responded to their accusations:

{12:25} ... “Every kingdom divided against itself will become desolate. And every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
{12:26} So if Satan casts out Satan, then he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

Now we'll see what Jesus did....
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  #14  
Old 25th July 2017, 08:49 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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On a related topic, here is my article:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/appari...evelations.htm
describing tricks used by fallen angels and false visionaries in false claims of private revelation.
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  #15  
Old 26th July 2017, 03:02 PM
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That's a great article, by the way, Ron.

2Thessalonians
{2:9} him whose advent is accompanied by the works of Satan, with every kind of power and signs and false miracles,
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  #16  
Old 30th July 2017, 05:48 PM
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This is very interesting. I didn't know that the fallen angels could do those kinds of things. It definitely helps explain certain alleged miracles. It also explains how some false visionaries could be tricked.
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  #17  
Old 1st August 2017, 06:36 PM
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And now we'll review what did Jesus do to prove that He is God.

Like previously stated, some of the true miracles from God can be mimicked or imitated, not Supernaturally (for they are not God), but preternaturally by fallen angels. Some persons can also do some trickery by naturally means and may fool people to think that those are "miracles". Only God can brake the laws of nature and thus perform true miracles.

That being said, some of the miracles that Jesus did can be imitated to some extent by fallen angels using preternatural means, but an imitation can never be the same as an original because the imitation is not the same, even though it may "look" the same to our eyes or senses.

Despite this, there are miracles that Jesus did that no fallen angel can possible imitate in the least. So here I'm going to mention some of those miracles, the inimitable ones.

The resurrection of Lazarus (John 11:1-44):

Some persons have said to have "near death experiences", now these patients were not truly dead, so it's not that they have truly resurrected.

In medical terms, a "Clinical Death" is when blood circulation and breathing ceases in a person. This type of "death" is reversible, it's rare, but reversible nonetheless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

Now "Biological Death" or "true death" is the cessation of ALL biological functions that sustain a living organism so that they start decomposing shortly after. So, when the body starts decomposing that it starts to smell and the worms start eating it, it is irreversible.

After Lazarus died, he was buried and placed in his tomb (which was a cave) and his body has been there for four days by the time Jesus arrived. Lazarus' body has already started to decompose for it already smelled (John 11:39), this means that his body has already started to fall apart, and there were many witnesses of his death. Despite this, Jesus is able to bring him back to a normal life (not a weird creepy life). Lazarus is the same normal person as before he died. This miracle is impossible to be replicated or faked by no one. Not even the greatest of angels can have a decomposed body and make it animated normally as previous to its death.
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  #18  
Old 1st August 2017, 06:50 PM
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Now, an apparent "resurrection" can be imitated in animals that are not truly dead but only paralyzed in some way by fallen angels, so what they do is loose the immobilized animal to give the impression of a "resurrection".

With dead decomposed animals, especially small animals, it can be imitated because animals of the same breed or species look alike, they look the same. For example, a sorcerer can find a dead decomposed bird on the beach, cover it with this hands, and all of the sudden, apparently the same bird is brought back to life and it starts flying, the trick relies that fallen angels can make disappear the dead decomposed bird from the sorcerer's hand (could be by quick transportation or other preternatural means) and make appear another bird of the same breed (one that looks the same out of the many that there are in the world) in the sorcerer's hands so it gives the impression that the sorcerer has "resurrected" the bird, but in fact what has happened is an interchange of birds that look alike. But this trick is impossible to be done with humans because even twins can be differentiated by their parents and close relatives by physical differences, personality, etc., also, they cannot be interchanged without human consent, among many other factors. Therefore, the resurrection of Lazarus is one of the miracles that cannot possible be imitated.

This is a clear sign that Jesus is God for no one can do likewise, except in His Name. Notice that when Jesus performs a miracle, He does it in His own power. When He tells the elements such as the wind to stop, it stops (Mark 4:39). He doesn't use anybody else's name.

When Peter and John performed the miracle of the lame at the foot of the Temple, they did it in Jesus' name (Acts 3:6-8 ), not in their own name for they are not gods. Similarly, when any Saint performs a miracle, it is in Jesus' name.

Despite this impossible to imitate miracle, the resurrection of Lazarus, the Pharisees and scribes wanted to kill Jesus (John 11:46-48 ), so they mortally sinned. There is no worse blind person than the one who does not want to see. The light is shown to us, but if we cover our eyes, the light can be in front of us and we do not see it.
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  #19  
Old 3rd August 2017, 05:55 PM
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All that Jesus said and did was for the glory of God, He came to this world to do the will of the Father (John 6:38-39). Jesus loved Lazarus and his sisters who told our Lord that Lazarus was sick (he must has been very sick). He could have gone to Bethania and heal Lazarus; however, for the glory of God, His appearance was not until he was dead and buried for four days. His personal affections did not interfere with this duty to glorify God. If Jesus would have healed Lazarus while he was still alive, it could have been another common healing done by the prophets, even if he would have resurrected Lazarus a few moments or hours after his death, just as He had already done with other persons, still the best that it could have been said about Him is that He is just another good prophet. Even Elijah, a true prophet of God, resurrected the boy of a widow (1 Kings 17:17-24), though, like all the other prophets, not in his name. Jesus Himself had already resurrected the son of a widow when this dead boy was already in his coffin and most likely on the way to the tomb (Luke 7:11-16), but telling the dead boy ""I" say to you, arise". Nonetheless, this other miracle that He was about to perform was even more astonishing in order to be no doubt that only God can do it because Lazarus was already placed in the tomb for four days. So, if the miracle would have been performed sooner, perhaps the impact would have been of less magnitude, or His enemies would have said that Lazarus was not really sick or dead, etc. So for the glory of God, for Jesus' own glory, He did this inimitable miracle. When He performed it, He is the one who commanded Lazarus to rise, He said: "Lazarus, come out" (John 11:43), in no one else's name. Therefore, Jesus can brake the laws of nature. He is the One who He said He is, God.

This also shows us that Jesus has power over death, there is indeed life after death, and that despite our sufferings which some times we may not understand, as Lazarus and his sisters were experiencing, we have to trust in our Lord for doing His will for His glory. Suffering in the Lord is also for our perfection. Jesus Himself learned obedience by the things that He suffered in His human nature (Hebrews 5:8 ). The resurrection of Lazarus was also a foreshadow of what was coming, of an even greater miracle.
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  #20  
Old 7th August 2017, 02:39 PM
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Now, before proceeding to another miracle of Jesus, lets make a parentheses here since some may say, "wait a minute, if Jesus is God, and He came to do the will of the Father, then who is the Father?, another god ?". No. As already explained in the following related thread, there cannot possible be more than one God:
http://www.catholicplanet.net/forum/...ead.php?t=6058

Exodus
{20:2} “I am the Lord your God, who led you away from the land of Egypt, out of the house of servitude.

Deuteronomy
{5:6} ‘I am the Lord your God, who led you away from the land of Egypt, from the house of servitude.

He does not say: "We are your gods".

Deuteronomy
{6:4} Listen, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord.

Isaiah
{45:5} I am the Lord, and there is no one else. There is no god beside me....

Sirach
{36:5} ... For there is no God apart from you, O Lord.

So, this should be clear enough that There is only One God, the Creator of all.

We believe that God is a communion of Three Persons. One God, Three Persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each Person has its respective role, but each Person is consubstantial with each other. For more information on this topic, read Ron's following article:

https://ronconte.wordpress.com/2012/...onsubstantial/

The Holy Trinity (One God, Three Persons) is a Dogma revealed by God to His Church.
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