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  #21  
Old 21st October 2008, 06:43 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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A person has to let Divine Providence guide them if their fate is to die a martyr or to defend his own life as long as it is for the grater Glory of God. What is the benefit if some one let himself be killed if at the end it is not for the greater Glory of God and for our own Christian Faith?....The same thing, what is the benefit if a person kills someone else if it is not for the greater Glory of God and our Faith?.... A Catholic must not renounce the Faith no mater what.

A martyr is usually is killed when the enemy is apparently "stronger" (to say a word) or if it is majority so the Christian can not defend himself, so his/her fate as a martyr has been set.

St. Peter was captured, St. Stephen was stoned to death by a majority of people, many of the first Christians were killed in Coliseums because they were trapped or when they were surrounded by a majority of people, so their fate was to die as martyrs, never renouncing the Faith. If they had an opportunity to escape or to defend themselves so they could survive in order to continue passing along their Faith on this earth, they could rightly have done so.

However, if a person has an opportunity to defend our fate by attacking the enemy in self defense, one can do so. If the aggressor wants to wipe out Catholicism out of our home land, we are called to defend ourselves against the enemy so our Faith is passed to our children and our children’s children. Again, like I said before, we must not seek aggression, always peace, but if the enemy is attempting against our Faith, aggression in self defence is our last resource or choice, when other means have not worked (or can not work) in order to seek peace in a determinate situation.

At the end, either by being a martyr or in self defense, our God and our Faith has to be the winner.
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  #22  
Old 22nd October 2008, 08:02 AM
ExCelciuS ExCelciuS is offline
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Again, like I said before, we must not seek aggression, always peace, but if the enemy is attempting against our Faith, aggression in self defence is our last resource or choice, when other means have not worked (or can not work) in order to seek peace in a determinate situation.

Yeah, at last I can accept that idea. Thanks for all who discuss with me in this topic, and special thanks to Brother who say that statement, which open up my mind, Thanks. Not confuse anymore.

Last question: I have read in bible when Peter is captured in jail and then an angel come and destroy the chain that bind him, blinded the wardens eyes, so they can't see when Peter escaping the jail, and then finally the main jail entrance that should be closed is magically opened. All escape routine is done easily and magically, wow, whatever big or strong the prison security, still mean nothing for God(who sent that angel to help Peter). The question: Why God is not always sent that angel to help Peter every time he is captured to release him?
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  #23  
Old 22nd October 2008, 12:23 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by ExCelciuS View Post
The question: Why God is not always sent that angel to help Peter every time he is captured to release him?

The followers of Christ must carry their crosses in order to be like Him.
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  #24  
Old 22nd October 2008, 02:44 PM
spiriton spiriton is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
I'm going to let each person decide for themselves if they might need a weapon or not. But I will say that, if one decides to buy a firearm: have a safe way to secure it, make sure it is not accessible to children or teenagers or anyone irresponsible, know how to use it safely, abide by all local and national laws. And be careful to know when it is legal to use violence in self-defense; this can vary greatly from place to place, and it is not always the same as when the moral law might permit deadly force to be used.

Sounds like good advice, as I have a 2 year old son who is extremely curious and active. I won't be purchasing a firearm; but, instead will put more time and effort into my faith.

Thanks again.
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  #25  
Old 15th July 2011, 04:34 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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1Sam 15:3

Now therefore, go and strike Amalek, and demolish all that is his. You shall not spare him, and you shall not covet anything out of the things that are his. Instead, kill from man even to woman, and little ones as well as infants, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

Ron,
what is the meaning , doctrine and moral of the verse above why including infants, this was ask frequently especially those who are away from the church.
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  #26  
Old 15th July 2011, 11:45 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by myLivingBread View Post
1Sam 15:3

Now therefore, go and strike Amalek, and demolish all that is his. You shall not spare him, and you shall not covet anything out of the things that are his. Instead, kill from man even to woman, and little ones as well as infants, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

Ron,
what is the meaning , doctrine and moral of the verse above why including infants, this was ask frequently especially those who are away from the church.

God can take the life away from anyone, at any time, at any age, because He is Lord of all. He gave us each life, and so He can take it away, without committing any immorality. Infants who die will be sent to Heaven, so it is not such a loss for them. Amalek and certain other peoples that God ordered the Israelites to destroy were very wicked societies. So God condemned the whole society to death.
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  #27  
Old 15th July 2011, 02:35 PM
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In that situation, what God is actually doing is 'saving' and 'rescuing' the infants and innocent from the sinful society that surrounds them (pagans), they are going to end up in Heaven. Now, if God let them to continue living in that sinful environment, they are going to grow and be influenced to become big sinners and end up in Hell. Also, whatever God does has a message and meaning for us, even if it doesn't make sense to our limited mind (Remember when Jesus told the expert Peter to go fishing and to throw the nets again, even though apparently there were not fish).

Note that the Father sacrificed His Own Begotten Son for us in remission for our sins, the truly Innocent One.
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