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  #1  
Old 9th May 2009, 02:43 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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Ron:
Can. 992 An indulgence is the remission before God of temporal punishment for sins whose guilt is already forgiven, which a properly disposed member of the Christian faithful gains under certain and defined conditions by the assistance of the Church which as minister of redemption dispenses and applies authoritatively the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.

Does this mean that even after confession and sins are fogiven, there is temporal pinishment for those sins after one dies?


Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession

Does this mean that if you have mortal sin and have not yet confessed that you cant even attend Mass?

Can. 1007 The anointing of the sick is not to be conferred upon those who persevere obstinately in manifest grave sin.

What does this mean? If you have a family member who is Catholic and dying but they are a murderer, you cannot get them last rights?
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  #2  
Old 9th May 2009, 03:24 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Can. 992 An indulgence is the remission before God of temporal punishment for sins whose guilt is already forgiven, which a properly disposed member of the Christian faithful gains under certain and defined conditions by the assistance of the Church which as minister of redemption dispenses and applies authoritatively the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.

Does this mean that even after confession and sins are fogiven, there is temporal pinishment for those sins after one dies?

To be forgiven for the sin and for the punishment justly due for sin the penitent goes to Confession, which forgives the sin, and then does penance, which remits the punishment due. If when you die you have not done sufficient penance for the punishment due, even for sins that were forgiven, you spend time in Purgatory as your penance.

Indulgences assist the penitent in remitting that punishment by applying the merits of all the faithful (not just of canonized Saints). But the penitent always does some act of penance and is always repentant from their sin in order to obtain an indulgence. The Church lacks the authority to forgive the temporal punishment due if the person is unrepentant, or if the person does nothing to obtain the indulgence (no act of penance).

Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession

Does this mean that if you have mortal sin and have not yet confessed that you cant even attend Mass?

If you have an actual mortal sin, unconfessed, you may attend Mass, but you ordinarily should not receive Communion until after your next good confession. In grave circumstances, one may receive Communion prior to confession if one also say an act of perfect contrition (sorrow for sin out of love for God).

Can. 1007 The anointing of the sick is not to be conferred upon those who persevere obstinately in manifest grave sin.

What does this mean? If you have a family member who is Catholic and dying but they are a murderer, you cannot get them last rights?

Only a priest or Bishop may confer the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick. He is not permitted to give the sacrament to persons manifestly unrepentant from serious sin because that persons needs to repent in order to be saved. If priests ignored manifest grave sin, and gave the anointing of the sick, the person might not realize that he needs to repent.
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Old 9th May 2009, 04:14 PM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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To be forgiven for the sin and for the punishment justly due for sin the penitent goes to Confession, which forgives the sin, and then does penance, which remits the punishment due. If when you die you have not done sufficient penance for the punishment due, even for sins that were forgiven, you spend time in Purgatory as your penance.

>>>>Ron, I need more explination, the definition if penance is punishment, after confession im told to say an Our Father. Is this penance? I dont equate that with punishment. If I dont say the Our Father then I get punished in purgatory? Please explain this more clearly to me.


Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession [/b]

If you have an actual mortal sin, unconfessed, you may attend Mass, but you ordinarily should not receive Communion until after your next good confession. In grave circumstances, one may receive Communion prior to confession if one also say an act of perfect contrition (sorrow for sin out of love for God).

>>>>>Ron, This clearly says a person cannot celebrate Mass. Please comment on these actualy words in canon law.

He is not permitted to give the sacrament to persons manifestly unrepentant from serious sin

>>>>>>Ron, How can he be sure of this? You never know whats in the hearts and minds of people. Please give me a real life example of this.
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Old 9th May 2009, 07:46 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
>>>>Ron, I need more explination, the definition if penance is punishment, after confession im told to say an Our Father. Is this penance? I dont equate that with punishment. If I dont say the Our Father then I get punished in purgatory? Please explain this more clearly to me.

Punishment includes various acts of reparation for the damage done for sin, including prayer and works of mercy. Just punishment need not involve suffering. There is a concept in human law of 'community service' as a punishment for a crime. Similarly, penance does not have to include suffering. So this is a broader definition of punishment. Since God the Just Judge is merciful, we should not expect every just punishment to involve suffering.

If you do not do the penance assigned by your confessor, then you may substitute any other penance. If you do not do enough penance in your life, and you die in a state of grace, then you go to Purgatory.

Quote:
>>>>>Ron, This clearly says a person cannot celebrate Mass. Please comment on these actualy words in canon law.

Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

The term celebrate only applies to priests and Bishops. The laity do not celebrate Mass. Even if someone is conscious of grave sin, they are not excused from the obligation to worship God and keep holy the Sabbath.

Quote:
He is not permitted to give the sacrament to persons manifestly unrepentant from serious sin

>>>>>>Ron, How can he be sure of this? You never know whats in the hearts and minds of people. Please give me a real life example of this.

Manifest means public and obvious. For example, a person who approaches for Communion wearing a button or shirt that promotes abortion or gay marriage or other grave immorality; a politician who publicly promotes abortion and publicly votes for abortion.

If there is any doubt, Communion must be given, since it is the right of the Baptized faithful to receive this Sacrament.
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  #5  
Old 10th May 2009, 02:36 AM
TheGiftOfLife
 
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ok Ron,
Much better, thanks I understand better.

I think canon 916 is misleading a bit in that it says a person. It should read, The ordained must not celebrate mass and the layity must not receive communion.

I still thought that we as one body CELEBRATE Mass together. I guess I was wrong about that.
and
I thought that when the priest says "wash away my iniquity and cleanse me from my sins, that was all that was needed to forgive his sins, if he was truly sorry eventhough it was grave.
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  #6  
Old 10th May 2009, 11:25 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Canon law contains some technical language, which must be understood in the context of Canon Law. This is also the case in some other Church documents. For example, in some documents 'Pastors' refers only to the Bishops of the Church, but in other documents the word refers to the pastor of a parish.
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Old 10th May 2009, 11:35 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I was considering going through Canon Law in the discussion group, section by section. Is there any interest?
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  #8  
Old 10th May 2009, 02:52 PM
Joey Joey is offline
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Canon Law is interesting and so misunderstood. We, as laity, assist in the celebration of the Mass, yet it is the priest or bishop who actually celebrates or con-celebrates when there is more than one. So much can be misconstrued. I think there is a need for clarification here on catholicplanet. My vote is 'yes'.
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Old 10th May 2009, 04:39 PM
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
I was considering going through Canon Law in the discussion group, section by section. Is there any interest?

Would be interesting. I know absolutely nothing from Canon Law !
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Old 10th May 2009, 08:10 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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I would be interested.
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