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  #41  
Old 8th February 2007, 02:00 PM
Padraig
 
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http://www.cathnews.com/news/702/43.php
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  #42  
Old 8th February 2007, 03:06 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Padraig View Post

Notice that in the article cited above, the Vatican does not say that the death penalty is always wrong. The claim that the death penalty is intrinsically immoral, or is always wrong, is a heresy. The position of the Vatican is that the circumstances of modern society are such that we can and should put aside the death penalty, in favor of other options. This argument is based on a judgment of the temporal order about modern society and about the best reponse to serious crimes in current circumstances.

Catholics are free to believe that the death penalty is useful even in modern society, because the Vatican position includes temporal judgments which are never infallible. However, Catholics are not free to believe that the use of the death penalty is intrinsically evil, or that it is immoral regardless of circumstances, because the Church infallibly teaches, under the universal Magisterium, that the death penalty can be moral in some circumstances.

The above statements are not merely my opinion but are required belief.

To deny that the death penalty is moral in some circumstances is to commit the sin of heresy.

[James]
{2:10} Now whoever has observed the whole law, yet who offends in one matter, has become guilty of all.

If you reject the teaching of the Church on the morality of the death penalty, it is the same as if you rejected the teaching of the Church on the Immaculate Conception, or against adultery, or on any other doctrine of faith or morals.


Ron Conte
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  #43  
Old 10th February 2007, 06:55 PM
CRW
 
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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Notice that in the article cited above, the Vatican does not say that the death penalty is always wrong. The claim that the death penalty is intrinsically immoral, or is always wrong, is a heresy. The position of the Vatican is that the circumstances of modern society are such that we can and should put aside the death penalty, in favor of other options. This argument is based on a judgment of the temporal order about modern society and about the best reponse to serious crimes in current circumstances.

Catholics are free to believe that the death penalty is useful even in modern society, because the Vatican position includes temporal judgments which are never infallible. However, Catholics are not free to believe that the use of the death penalty is intrinsically evil, or that it is immoral regardless of circumstances, because the Church infallibly teaches, under the universal Magisterium, that the death penalty can be moral in some circumstances.

The above statements are not merely my opinion but are required belief.

To deny that the death penalty is moral in some circumstances is to commit the sin of heresy.

[James]
{2:10} Now whoever has observed the whole law, yet who offends in one matter, has become guilty of all.

If you reject the teaching of the Church on the morality of the death penalty, it is the same as if you rejected the teaching of the Church on the Immaculate Conception, or against adultery, or on any other doctrine of faith or morals.


Ron Conte

Ron,

I was reading Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Lubwig Ott. One interesting point, The Doctrine of God the Sanctifier, Section 19, Membership of the Church, 3 c: Schismatic’s, as well as those who, in good faith, fundamentally reject the Church authority, or who dissociate themselves from the commonwealth of the faithful subject to her. Schismatic’s in good faith (material) like heretics in good faith, can, by a desire to belong to the Church (votum Ecclesiae), belong spiritually to the Church, and through this achieve justification and salvation.

I guess the point is that apostates and heretics do not belong to the body of the Church, does not prevent them belonging spiritually to the Church by their desire to belong to the Church and through this, achieving justification and salvation.

For those that do not believe in the capital punishment (death penalty), although believing that the Church has the right to approve it, are not heretics. Am I reading or understanding this doctrine wrong?

Cecil
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  #44  
Old 10th February 2007, 07:01 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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For those that do not believe in the capital punishment (death penalty), although believing that the Church has the right to approve it, are not heretics. Am I reading or understanding this doctrine wrong?

Any individual Catholic is free to be against the death penalty, and to refrain from killing even in self-defense or just war.

It is only a heresy to believe that no one is ever justified in killing, even in self-defense, or just war, or in particular circumstances the just application of the death penalty.

It is not a heresy to be against the death penalty, as long as you believe Church teaching that its morality or immorality depends on the circumstances, so that the death penalty is not always immoral.


Ron
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