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  #1  
Old 7th December 2006, 08:10 PM
cocatholic
 
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Default Saint Paul's Tomb

I read yesterday from a popular source at least that a Vatican archeologist has completed the task of uncovering the Apostle Paul's tomb for this purpose, "Our objective was to bring the remains of the tomb back to light for devotional reasons, so that it could be venerated and be visible."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...-06-paul_x.htm

This is pretty sad to me on the grounds of respect and the use of the term venerated which could be misconstrued as revered or worshipped. I would rather one day meet him in person then to descecrate a gravesite.

Does anyone else have a problem with this?
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  #2  
Old 8th December 2006, 01:57 AM
Mario
 
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Default I'm ok with it.

cocatholic,

So good to hear from you! The veneration of saints and their relics are an ancient tradition of our Church. The Martyrdom of Polycarp, which is an eyewitness account written in the mid-second century, highlights how accepted was veneration in the early Church:

17:1 But the jealous and Evil One...saw to it that not even his poor body should be taken away by us, even though many desired to do this and to touch his holy flesh.

18:2 And so later on we took up his bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and deposited them in a suitable place.

In the New Testament, a precedent for relics and sacramentals can be found in Acts 19:11- And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them...

cocatholic, we Catholics make tangible our Faith in ways other Christians will never find acceptable; it is a fact of life. Veneration to them equals adoration and therefore, they believe we violate the 1st Commandment. Should we modify our language which reflects ancient tradition to avoid offense. I think not; yet, neither should we flount it in their faces.

In 2003, I visited the Basilica the article references(Paul Outside the Wall), and I was deeply moved to be near the remains of the Apostle to the Gentiles. Let us never regret the riches of our Faith. And let us pray with sorrow, for those who misinterpret and fail to understand.
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  #3  
Old 11th December 2006, 02:03 AM
Hope
 
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I know that the Church has this practice, but on a human level, I still think it's creepy. Not that I'll have to worry, but in theory, if I became a Saint, I wouldn't want my body put on display . . . I'd want to rest in peace. I'd hate to have a finger bone in one church and my foot bone cut off and put in another . . .shiver, shiver . . . I know -- all for the glory of God -- but still, ew.
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  #4  
Old 11th December 2006, 03:48 AM
Catholicity
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternity View Post
I know that the Church has this practice, but on a human level, I still think it's creepy. Not that I'll have to worry, but in theory, if I became a Saint, I wouldn't want my body put on display . . . I'd want to rest in peace. I'd hate to have a finger bone in one church and my foot bone cut off and put in another . . .shiver, shiver . . . I know -- all for the glory of God -- but still, ew.

The veneration of the relics of saints can be better understood if we think about the Incarnation of Christ. By Christ's Incarnation, he has sanctified all matter, especially the human body. He became man to save us and to communicate his glory through matter. It is one thing to ask for the saints' intercession, but it flows from the implications of the Incarnation, to honor the relics of the saints. This shows that God's glory is not only shown in the prayers of his servants, but even in their remains. Nothing less could be acceptable to the "God made man."

God bless,

Adam
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  #5  
Old 16th December 2006, 04:34 PM
Padraig
 
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I think Catholics have have always venerated, from the very earliest times the relics of the saints, including their remains. Since we've being doing this a couple of thousand years I don't see much harm in it and a lot of good.
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  #6  
Old 16th December 2006, 07:27 PM
DiAZ216
 
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Adam wrote, "This shows that God's glory is not only shown in the prayers of his servants, but even in their remains."

This would also seem to apply to incorruptible bodies.
Thoughts?

Darrell
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  #7  
Old 19th December 2006, 02:55 AM
little boots
 
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its a thin line between veneration and worship. We (our bodies) are dust and ash...worm food. If it helps you to have a relic of some sort near by (I was given a piece of little Therese' habit) then by all means. As with any "religeous" symbol, its meant to raise our minds to God.
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  #8  
Old 19th December 2006, 04:20 AM
Catholicity
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little boots View Post
its a thin line between veneration and worship. We (our bodies) are dust and ash...worm food. If it helps you to have a relic of some sort near by (I was given a piece of little Therese' habit) then by all means. As with any "religeous" symbol, its meant to raise our minds to God.

The Church's Liturgy, which is the highest expression of the Magisterium of the Church, doesn't agree that our bodies are mere dust and ash - worm food. The Orthodox and Roman liturgical tradition of incensing the body and pointing it in direction of the altar at a funeral says that the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. And this same body, from which shines the glory of God, will one day be resurrected and exist in the presence of God forever. This is no affirmation of "worm food."

You are right in saying that all veneration of the relics of the saints should raise our hearts and minds to God, however. That's true. However, by no means, should we hold that the bodies of God's saints are mere vehicles for life and lose their ability to confer grace after their death (cf. 2 Kings 13:21). God continues to work through the relics of his servants as can be seen in the miracles that have come from their veneration and the incorruptibility occasionally given to them.

God bless,

Adam
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  #9  
Old 19th December 2006, 06:41 AM
Padraig
 
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Yes, I think in seeing the incorruptible bodies of the Saints we are pointed towards the New Jerusalem. We aren't angels , we are human, physical and shall be reunited with our bodies at the Ressurection. The Church acknowledges the physical with things like Holy Water and Blessed oils.
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  #10  
Old 19th December 2006, 02:51 PM
little boots
 
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here is where I think we start to blur the line...

Catholicity: "...lose 'their' (the relics) ability to confer Grace." They are not magic. They have no power in and of themselves to do anything.
God bestows the grace. God holds them in an incoruptable state. God enables the miracles. It is towards God that our hearts and minds are raised when we view these objects.
I believe that John of the Cross would agree that we must be detatched from ALL worldly things, to include Holy relics, a favorite Rosary or prayer card, a particular church, statue, book etc...
I once spoke with a brother who lived at a particularly pretty monastery, and when I made mention its attractiveness he said "Picture it as a pile of rubble. It's stone on stone right now, but won't be forever."
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