CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Catholicism > Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 2nd May 2006, 05:41 PM
jerr
 
Posts: n/a
Default Daniel 1

Mario you are right. This was a great example of twofold expression of wisdom....."faithfulness and prudence."

But what strikes me the most is the comparison of God's desire for us to treat our bodies as if they were a temple and Daniel's challenge to allow the four to eat foods that would not defile them.

We all struggle to maintain a healthy balanced diet in our lives and if we accomplish that we are for a lack of a better analogy, bettering our lives "tenfold" over those who don't accomplish this.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2nd May 2006, 10:36 PM
DiAZ216
 
Posts: n/a
Default Daniel 1

The only thing I have to add is in verse 10, we see the leader of the eunuchs is afraid of the king. We should be more concerned with pleasing God than being worried about what men think of us. By Daniel's example, we see that God gave him grace and mercy.

Darrell
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 3rd May 2006, 05:15 AM
themilitantcatholic
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Old Testament is full of obscure meanings, hints of what is to come, in the New Testament. This may sound like a stretch, but could this possibly be an obscure meaning or a strange type of pre-figurement as in meaning; that while of course the best food on earth (fit for a king) is good for your physical body and to sustain life. On the other hand, there is a spiritual food (one that came in the New Testament), the Body of Christ, which will strengthen our souls in order for us to obtain everlasting life. Is there a parallel here:

The king's food may have represented earthly food.
Daniel's food may have represented spiritual food.

Daniel and the other three abstained from meat and wine.
We also abstain from earthly food and drink, prior to receiving Holy Communion.

Daniel and the three grew ten times in wisdom and understanding.
We too grow in wisdom and understanding, each time we receive Holy Communion.

As you say Ron, "wisdom does not come from IQ or from studying, but from God." Daniel knew he would not gain wisdom from the food of an earthly king. Only a heavenly food could give him so great a wisdom.

I think it was a Saint who once said; It is the only thing the angels envy, when we earthly beings receive Holy Communion.

Lastly, I think everything in the Book of Daniel is of extreme importance: Christ himself spoke of Daniel, Matthew 24., Mark 13., Luke 21.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 3rd May 2006, 11:52 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

good interpretation, militant.

next up, chapter 2.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 3rd May 2006, 03:39 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

I'll just give my interpretation of Daniel 2 as it applies to the future:

The vision of the statue reveals the future of the world.
Each section of the statue, as Daniel said, is a future kingdom.
Now Daniel understood that meaning as it pertained to the kingdoms of Daniel's time. But it has also a greater meaning for a time distant from Daniel, but close to us.

The gold head represents the kingdom of the great monarch, which will be ruled by faith as well as reason. The head represents reason; the gold represents the Catholic faith and its teachings. The kingdom of the great monarch will be like gold compared to all the previous and future kingdoms of the world (until Christ returns).

The silver breasts and arms represent the kingdom after that of the great monarch. As we later learn in Daniel, his kingdom will be divided into four parts. These four parts are represented by the two breasts and the two arms. One of the four parts will be the southern most portion of the great monarch's kingdom and its leader will be a devout man; this portion of the great monarch's kingdom is the holiest, and it includes the Holy Land (which by then will be mostly Christian) and the Middle East, and northern Africa.
Another part will be most of Europe, which is later called in Daniel the kingdom of the north. Then there are two other parts. Now two of the four parts will be led by men, symoblized by the arms of the statue, but the other two parts will be led by women, symbolized by the breasts of the statue.

Notice how quickly the good of the great monarch's kingdom is reduced when it passes into the leadership of other persons. Under the great monarch's kingdom, men and women will have different roles in the Church, the family, and society. (The Arabs/Muslims during the occupation of Europe prior to the great monarch's kingdom will establish rules and customs giving men and women different roles, and this will help people accept the great monarch's somewhat similar rules but from a Catholic point of view.) But under the four kingdoms that follow, already two are led by women and they loosen the rules for women in society. But the kingdom of the South retains its proper customs.

Now the four kingdoms are represented by silver because they still retain many good laws. However, these four kingdoms (actually, this mostly applies to the three kingdoms which are less holy; the Holy Land continues to be holy) no longer act according to faith and reason; now they make changes in law and custom according to emotion, which is seated in the chest, and according to a desire for power, which is represented by the arms.

The next kingdom is of brass. It is even less holy than the previous silver and gold kingdoms. It is represented by the belly, waist, and thighs because this kingdom permits and encourages many sexual sins. It also seeks power and the conquering of nations, represented by the thighs (marching to war). The belly represents bodily desires.

The iron represents the kingdom of the ten kings, which becomes the kingdom of the Antichrist. The kingdom of the ten kings and of the Antichrist are of iron, because they crush all other kingdoms and governments, and they are of clay, because many persons resist this kingdom, retaining their humanity (represented by clay).

The mingling of iron and clay represents some attempt by the Antichrist to mingle technology and human nature (but this attempt fails because iron cannot be joined with clay).

"the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, part the kingdom will be strong and part will be crushed."
The toes are ten, representing the ten kingdoms. Those of iron are the four kingdoms ruled directly by the Antichrist, and the other six are those kingdoms forced to submit to him.

The stone torn away from the mountain 'without hands' is Christ and His kingdom. The stone destroys every part of the statue, even the gold head, because Christ's kingdom is even greater than the kingdom of the great monarch. The stone grows to fill the whole world, meaning that when Christ returns and the Antichrist is destroyed, the Millennium of peace and holiness begins, so that Christianity fills and rules the whole world.

The great monarch's kingdom begins in 2040 A.D.
The kingdom of the ten kings occurs in the 24th century (the 2300's) and lasts for a number of generations before the Antichrsit arrives.
The kingdom of the Antichrist is from 2430/2431 to 2437 A.D.
Christ returns in 2437 A.D.

the Millennium then follows, after Christ sets things right in the world, and it lasts for well over a thousand years.

Ron Conte
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 3rd May 2006, 05:19 PM
DiAZ216
 
Posts: n/a
Default Daniel 2

I was thinking that possibly the seers, astrologers and sorcerers are like the secular scientists and academics of our time, always learning but never reaching an understanding of the Truth (2 Timothy 3:7), and also all those today who are into new age and other pagan religions. As events unfold, they will not be able to understand or explain, just as the seers, astrologers and sorcerers did not know or understand the king’s dream.

In verse 14, we see the prudence that Mario pointed out in Daniel 1.

We all of us should remember as events unfold, like Daniel and his companions, to “seek mercy before the face of the God of heaven.” Daniel teaches us that God gives wisdom and He reveals deep and hidden things. Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!

Darrell
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 4th May 2006, 12:14 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

Any comments on my eschatological interpretation of Daniel 2?

I'll give the members a day to catch up with the discussion and reading.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 4th May 2006, 08:13 PM
themilitantcatholic
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Anyone can have a "revelation," but Daniel received divine revelation. Verse 2 - "the king commanded to call together the diviners and the wise men, and the magicians, and the Chaldeans . . . " Scripture is telling us here that Daniel was wiser than all of them. Today, many people seek out astrology, psychics and soothsayers to predict for them their own future, yet where do these people get their "revelations" from? Are they divine? The answer is an emphatic No! I think God is showing us here in Chap. 2, that only divine revelation is true revelation. Daniel was more gifted than all of the others, why? Because his revelations were Divine! Verse 31 - 35 has always been very difficult for me to understand. Ron, I'm stumped, even after reading your interpretation of it in the past about a dozen times, and now on this study group. The one thing that stands out for me though is verse 31 - "and the look thereof was terrible" concerning the statue, I imagine it to look like the face of those hideous chinese dragons, or maybe the look was "terrible" because men on this fallen world do terrible things, but all is made good when "a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands" that stone, in my opinion is divinely sent from God. This chapter (2) to me is where I say: Scripture is hard to understand.[/i]
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 4th May 2006, 10:41 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

some further interpretation of the meaning of the statue:

more generally, it signifies that earthly kingdoms get worse and worse; gold gives way to silver, and then to brass, and then to iron and to clay. But the kingdom of Christ, which is symbolized by the stone from the mountain, is not made by human hands, but by God. The kingdom of God crushes all earthly kingdoms, even those that are like gold, and replaces then to fill the whole world.

Notice that Daniel interprets the parts of the statue as successive kingdoms. The best kingdom is represented by the gold head of the statue. But which earthly kingdom in the past, present, or future is the best? It must be the kingdom of the great monarch, whose kingdom is based on the Catholic Faith and on reason. Successive kingdoms thereafter decline in holiness and in reasonableness.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 4th May 2006, 11:11 PM
DiAZ216
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
But which earthly kingdom in the past, present, or future is the best? It must be the kingdom of the great monarch, whose kingdom is based on the Catholic Faith and on reason. Successive kingdoms thereafter decline in holiness and in reasonableness

This reminded me that even with all that will happen in the next 34 years--the supernatural signs/gifts from God and the tribulation that will result in the deaths of 2/3 of the earth's population--still there will be impious and unGodly elements left in the world during the riegn of the great monarch. I guess that like pharoh during the time of Moses, they will harden their hearts?

Seems to me this puts a great responsibility on us Catholics who have faith--much is expected from those who are given much. Like the eunuch in this morning's first reading, I imagine there will be many who don't understand but will embrace the Truth when an apostle is there to speak it.

Darrell
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.