CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Catholic Continuing Education > Teaching Series - moral theology
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 1st May 2009, 01:03 PM
sammy sammy is offline
supporting member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: bastrop texas
Posts: 783
Default

Thank you, these examples really help.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 1st May 2009, 04:21 PM
sweet basil sweet basil is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hudson Valley NY
Posts: 194
Default

Ron,

I am unclear on abstaining from meat on non-Lenten Fridays. Is there a requirement to abstain on all Fridays? I recently had a discussion with my in-laws on this subject who are practicing Catholics and they seem to think this was dismissed years ago. I am not so sure. Can you clarify for me? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 1st May 2009, 04:36 PM
Shane Shane is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Choose one of the following situations and apply the three fonts of morality:

3. Use of mental reservation to avoid losing your job.


I'll attempt this one.

1st font:
intention. To keep your job, which is not necessarily evil. A good intention, for a job is necessary for sustaining a family etc.

2nd font: act + meaning inherent. Using mental reservation, i.e. withholding some truth but not telling lies, and mental reservation is moral, so again a moral font.

3rd font: circumstances (consequences). I suppose it would depend on whether or not you have deceived your employer in any way. If so, then this would be a bad consequence. If you simply end up keeping your job without any deception, then that would indeed be moral, and therefore the whole act would be moral.

If you were to lie in order to keep the job, that would be immoral since lying is intrinsically evil.

Hope I did ok?

Shane
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 1st May 2009, 05:00 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet basil View Post
Ron,

I am unclear on abstaining from meat on non-Lenten Fridays. Is there a requirement to abstain on all Fridays? I recently had a discussion with my in-laws on this subject who are practicing Catholics and they seem to think this was dismissed years ago. I am not so sure. Can you clarify for me? Thanks.

Canon Law

CHAPTER II.

Days of Penance

Can. 1249 The divine law binds all the Christian faithful to do penance each in his or her own way. In order for all to be united among themselves by some common observance of penance, however, penitential days are prescribed on which the Christian faithful devote themselves in a special way to prayer, perform works of piety and charity, and deny themselves by fulfilling their own obligations more faithfully and especially by observing fast and abstinence, according to the norm of the following canons.

Can. 1250 The penitential days and times in the universal Church are every Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM

The USCCB has not dispensed from this norm of abstinence on Fridays, as far as I know. See these references

http://www.usccb.org/norms/12521253.htm

http://www.usccb.org/dpp/penitential.htm
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 1st May 2009, 05:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
I'll attempt this one.

1st font:
intention. To keep your job, which is not necessarily evil. A good intention, for a job is necessary for sustaining a family etc.

2nd font: act + meaning inherent. Using mental reservation, i.e. withholding some truth but not telling lies, and mental reservation is moral, so again a moral font.

3rd font: circumstances (consequences). I suppose it would depend on whether or not you have deceived your employer in any way. If so, then this would be a bad consequence. If you simply end up keeping your job without any deception, then that would indeed be moral, and therefore the whole act would be moral.

If you were to lie in order to keep the job, that would be immoral since lying is intrinsically evil.

Hope I did ok?

Shane

If the act is deceitful, that would be in the second font. The third font is the consequences. There may possibly be harm done which would outweigh the good of keeping your job.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2nd May 2009, 12:01 AM
sweet basil sweet basil is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hudson Valley NY
Posts: 194
Default

I think alot of people are under the impression that this was done away with, or rather, optional. Not sure why that is but thank you for clearing this up. I guess I am obligated to correct my in-laws now even though they will probably dismiss what I say but at least I can point to Canon Law.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 3rd May 2009, 01:36 AM
Dan A Dan A is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 205
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

If this is still in effect why is not taught? I remeber when they were talking about bringing back the no meat on Friday.
__________________
King of kings and Lord of lords.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 3rd May 2009, 02:20 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan A View Post
If this is still in effect why is not taught? I remeber when they were talking about bringing back the no meat on Friday.

I don't know why so many people believe and are taught that they should only abstain from meat on Fridays of Lent. Certainly, on occasion, a faithful Catholic can eat meat on Fridays and substitute some other devotion or penance. But the norm is to abstain.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 8th May 2009, 12:02 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,592
Default

Which of the following acts are moral?

1. a good act, done with only good intention, but where the bad consequences outweigh the good consequences

2. a good act, done with only good intention, but where the bad consequences and the good consequences are of equal moral weight

3. a small lie told with the best of intentions, in order to avoid dire harmful consequences

4. a good act with only good consequences but with selfish intention
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 8th May 2009, 01:36 PM
sammy sammy is offline
supporting member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: bastrop texas
Posts: 783
Default

#2. An intention or act cannot be immoral. The consequences can be weighed, so we have some wiggle room in the 3rd font. As long as the 3rd font is not greater in immorality, more than 50%, it does not spoil the morality of the entire act. I would guess neutrality in the consequences would be acceptable and not negate the morality of the intention and act.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.