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  #1  
Old 2nd October 2006, 12:29 AM
Bomber
 
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John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us."
Jesus replied, "Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
For whoever is not against us is for us.
Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.


All:

What does this passage mean, and how does it apply to muslims in todays world? I suppose that it means that means that muslims that are devout in their beliefs and are doing something good because they believe it is for God, that we are to laud them for it. Is this correct? I hope so.

Thanks
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Old 2nd October 2006, 01:58 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber View Post
John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us."
Jesus replied, "Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
For whoever is not against us is for us.
Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.


All:

What does this passage mean, and how does it apply to muslims in todays world? I suppose that it means that means that muslims that are devout in their beliefs and are doing something good because they believe it is for God, that we are to laud them for it. Is this correct? I hope so.

Thanks
Yes, and more than just that. I think it means that they obtain a mystical Baptism by doing even a small good deed 'because you belong to Christ'. This is certainly possible for Muslims, who respect Jesus, and Mary also.

Ron
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Old 2nd October 2006, 09:24 PM
BIDUMATTW BIDUMATTW is offline
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Jesus seems to have two criteria which I do not see Muslims as fulfilling:

1) Preforming mighty deeds IN MY NAME.
2) belonging to Christ.

I know of no mighty deeds performed by Muslims in the name of Jesus.
Muslims respect Jesus. They certainly would not characterize themselves as belonging to Christ.

The passage is more closely appropriate to our seperated brethren, The Protestants in my view.
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Old 3rd October 2006, 03:17 PM
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Is it possible that when he said "in my name" he was speaking of God (the Father)?
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Old 3rd October 2006, 09:35 PM
BIDUMATTW BIDUMATTW is offline
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Perhaps. However, when one asks "is it possible", and one must then must entertain ALL possibilities, it becomes cumbersome.

Clearly, in the second sentence after Jesus uses the phrase "in My name", and just mere moments in time from this thought, mind you, He uses His title "Christ". I do not believe it is a reference to the Father. He references Himself, God the Son.

I sense an effort at eccumenism extended toward muslims in your writing.
While I agree with including muslims in God's will, I do not see it in this verse.

I also believe it is incumbent upon Christians to point out the fallacy of error to those who hold beliefs contrary to the Gospel. Muslims certainly fall into this catagory. A tricky task indeed these days.

I agree with Ron that good deeds done by muslims toward Christians, with a pure heart, have the merit of that good work to their credit.
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Old 4th October 2006, 02:04 PM
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Thanks for the answer.

Yes, I suppose I do often look for ecumenical opportunities.

I often feel really bad for others, especially the misguided. I suppose that when I am praying for them, I try to look for anything to offer to God on their behalf that can help them.

Nonetheless, you have a good point.

Bomber
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  #7  
Old 9th February 2010, 12:38 PM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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what is the meaning of this verses jn Genesis Jacob wrestle with an angel?

{32:22} And when he had arisen early, he took his two wives, and the same number of handmaids, with his eleven sons, and he crossed over the ford of Jabbok.
{32:23} And having delivered over all the things that belonged to him,
{32:24} he remained alone. And behold, a man wrestled with him until morning.
{32:25} And when he saw that he would not be able to overcome him, he touched the nerve of his thigh, and immediately it withered.
{32:26} And he said to him, “Release me, for now the dawn ascends.” He responded, “I will not release you, unless you bless me.”
{32:27} Therefore he said, “What is your name?” He answered, “Jacob.”
{32:28} But he said, “Your name will not be called Jacob, but Israel; for if you have been strong against God, how much more will you prevail against men?”
{32:29} Jacob questioned him, “Tell me, by what name are you called?” He responded, “Why do you ask my name?” And he blessed him in the same place.
{32:30} And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “I have seen God face to face, and my soul has been saved.”
{32:31} And immediately the sun rose upon him, after he had crossed beyond Peniel. Yet in truth, he limped on his foot.
{32:32} For this reason, the sons of Israel, even to the present day, do not eat the nerve that withered in Jacob’s thigh, because he touched the nerve of his thigh and it was obstructed.
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Old 9th February 2010, 01:40 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I don't know what that means.
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  #9  
Old 9th February 2010, 03:34 PM
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This passage can have different interpretations, but in my humble opinion, I think that this represents that we must cling on God and not to our own ways or strengths in life.

Jacob was a man who was used to do things his own way, as he planned and succeeded. He wanted to marry this woman called Raquel, he had to work for about 10 years to finally marry her. He wanted to have his fathers blessing even though he was not the first son (Esau was the first son), he dressed as Esau in order to have his blind father’s blessing, and he got it, he got what he wanted.

Now we go to this passage part, Jacob’s older brother, Esau was angry with Jacob and was now persecuting him. Since Jacob was trying to reconciliate with Esau, he started to send his goods or belongings thru that river to Esau and see if his brother’s heart may soften and they may find reconciliation. Since Esau was still persecuting him, Jacob started to send more of his belongings to him, his products, even his family but nothing happened, and then:

{32:23} And having delivered over all the things that belonged to him,
{32:24} he remained alone. And behold, a man wrestled with him until morning.

He remained alone, all his belongings gone, including his own family, this time his plan was not working and not succeeding, this time Jacob was feeling powerless. The mysterious Man he saw I think he was the Angel of God who wrestled with him. Since Jacob couldn’t beat this Man because He was stronger than him, he just grabbed Him tightly and would not let go, so this Man gave Him a cross, he injured the nerve of his thigh, but even there he was still cling on Him, therefore, the changing of Jacob’s name represents, the changing of our own way to God’s ways, to be strong with God no matter our tribulations, Jacob's name was changed to "Israel".

Getting rid of our possessions, material things even in our family to put God first in our lives, to cling on Him and to carry our crosses to follow Him.

I think this may also be a foreshadowing of baptism, because Jacob said that his soul was saved by having this encounter with this Man.


On a related note, I find interesting that God is going to injure the Great Monarch’s (I think is his hip) so he would not be able to walk well, but just as Jacob, he’ll be strong with God.

Last edited by Brother : 9th February 2010 at 03:37 PM.
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  #10  
Old 9th February 2010, 03:53 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Brother, how do you know that the monarch's leg will be injured?
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