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  #1  
Old 19th October 2006, 01:13 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Judas and Hell

[Matthew]
{27:3} Then Judas, who betrayed him, seeing that he had been condemned, regretting his conduct, brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the leaders of the priests and the elders,
{27:4} saying, “I have sinned in betraying just blood.” But they said to him: “What is that to us? See to it yourself.”
{27:5} And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed. And going out, he hanged himself with a snare.

Judas went to Hell after he died, but not for betraying Christ.
He repented from his betrayal of Christ.
Judas went to Hell for despairing of the Mercy of God.


Ron
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  #2  
Old 21st October 2006, 01:20 PM
BIDUMATTW BIDUMATTW is offline
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Ron,
Is it not presumption to say " Judas went to hell for desparing of the mercy of God" ? I have the understanding that no one on this side of heaven can have the certainty of the final disposition of a soul.
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  #3  
Old 21st October 2006, 01:28 PM
Padraig
 
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Not many know this, but the Council of Trent states that no-one can have an assurance of their salvation save by a special revelation of God. Which I always took to be a very significant exception.I was reading the links about the remarkable Fr Sudac and the seal on his forehead and it makes me very much suspect he has such assurance, though I realise this seems like Protestant/Evangelical 'Saved' talk.

I suspect very much Judas is in hell, but who knows, really?

Padre Pio used to say that after we die we actually face God as He really is and then to finally have the occasion to accept or reject God. To spit in God's face in person as it were. I believe this to be true. If it is how can we judge if anyone is dammed? I wonder if when Jesus said for us to, 'Judge not' He was not warning us against such absolute moral judgfements; that he/she is damned?

I strongly suspect he is in hell, but this is worlds away from saying he is in hell. Who can set limits on the mercy of God? For that mercy, that love made Him die for us? And if He'd do that, I'd say He'd do just about anything.

Last edited by Padraig : 21st October 2006 at 03:47 PM.
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  #4  
Old 21st October 2006, 04:59 PM
Mario
 
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Default What about Jn 17:12

I agree that we cannot judge the soul of any individual, but I have based my understanding concerning Judas' destination, not on the nature of his sin, but on the Savior's words:

...I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Ron, is my interpretation that this pertains to Judas faulty?
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  #5  
Old 21st October 2006, 05:19 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I think that Judas' final destination is knowable because it is implicit in Divine Revelation. However, since it is not explicitly stated, it is my interpretation, and apparently Mario's also, that Judas went to Hell.

Also, Blessed A.C. Emmerich recounts a private revelation of when Jesus visited Hell after his death and before his resurrection. In Hell: "our Lord spoke first to the soul of Judas, and the angels then compelled all the demons to acknowledge and adore Jesus." Dolorous Passion, chapter 59.

But, as far as I know, it is still an open question as to whether or not Judas went to Hell, since the Church has no definitive teaching on that point.

Concerning Padre Pio's statement, it is true that at the particular judgment, we accept or reject God, but at that time we are not free to do whatever we choose, but our choice has already been made by the way that we lived our lives. No one can die in a state of grace and yet reject God at the particular judgment, nor can anyone who dies in a state of actual mortal sin go on to acccept God at the particular judgment.


Ron
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  #6  
Old 21st October 2006, 05:27 PM
Padraig
 
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I suspect Padre Pio meant we might have a chance at point of death and before the judgement. However I agree that having lived a wicked life makes it increasingly unlikely they will choose to love.

I agree that no-one can be certain of Judas's fate though he is very probably damned.
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  #7  
Old 25th October 2006, 12:50 PM
Bomber
 
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Padraig,

Do you have a link where I could read more about Padre Rio's teachings on what happens at death? I've heard something like this a long time ago, but I never knew the source. I tried google, but I couldn't find anything specific on what you are talking about, and I would like to read it.

Thank You
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  #8  
Old 25th October 2006, 06:34 PM
Padraig
 
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No, I'm sorry Bomber, I read this many moons ago and it stuck in my mind.
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  #9  
Old 25th October 2006, 08:10 PM
Padraig
 
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Just found this:

http://www.spiritdaily.com/tassonepio.htm
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  #10  
Old 26th October 2006, 03:16 PM
Hope
 
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Didn't Jesus say something along the lines concerning Judas that it would have been better for him that he was never born?

Maybe I'm crazy and He never said it, but if He did, to me that is a pretty BIG sign that Judas went to Hell.

Even if Judas spent a million years in Purgatory, it would be better that he WAS born, if eventually he was going to be in Heaven with the angels and saints and see God Almighty.

On the otherhand, if his eternal lot is to burn, gnash and be poked in the butt with pitchforks . . . wouldn't he rather have never been born?

And that's all she wrote . . . Bye.
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