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  #111  
Old 9th March 2010, 09:11 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Ron,

Would it be a valid Matrimony if a person is married in the Church but against his/her will? …or if a person is forced to get married (by relatives of the spouse, etc.)?....

If not, would it become a valid marriage after they have a sexual relationship (even though the person doesn't really love the spouse and was forced to do so in the beginning)?...

What makes a Marriage a valid Sacrament, and what allows for an annulment (a declaration that the Marriage was never valid) is complex. Generally, proper form, consent, and consummation are needed for the bond of the Sacrament (which cannot be broken except by death).

If a person is pressured to marry, and agrees, that might be valid consent. If a person is literally forced to marry, that is not valid consent. No, consummation (sexual relations) does not make for a valid marriage without consent.
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  #112  
Old 9th March 2010, 09:28 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Thanks Ron, important to know.

There can be the case where a person is drugged in order to have sexual relationships without his/her consent, or even to get married.
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  #113  
Old 26th March 2010, 08:01 PM
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Sacredcello Sacredcello is offline
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I have a question about how to deal with invalid marriage within one's family. It was just announced that my father-in-law who is a Catholic widower is now engaged to a woman who is divorced. It is believed that she is a Catholic by birth, but we do not know about her current level of faith, since we have not yet met her. They plan to marry on a cruise ship. So, I am guessing that they do not wish to investigate the annulment process. My father-in-law is a Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion at his church and has been for many years. Of course, if he enters into an invalid marriage, he will no longer be able to do so, or to even receive communion. My question is, how does one deal with this, other than prayer?

If the woman he is marrying was in a non-Sacramental or invalid marriage with her ex-husband, she should seek an annulment. I have been through this process and found it to be extremely valuable in helping me to understand the necessary conditions for the Sacrament of Marriage. Would I be advised to share this with her? Or, for the sake of peace, should I remain silent?
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  #114  
Old 26th March 2010, 10:05 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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If the marriage is scheduled after 4-2-10, you may not have to say much.
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  #115  
Old 26th March 2010, 10:45 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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My question is, how does one deal with this, other than prayer?

If the woman he is marrying was in a non-Sacramental or invalid marriage with her ex-husband, she should seek an annulment. I have been through this process and found it to be extremely valuable in helping me to understand the necessary conditions for the Sacrament of Marriage. Would I be advised to share this with her? Or, for the sake of peace, should I remain silent?

It is a judgment of the prudential order. Which approach will do the most good and the least harm? I suggest remaining silent, unless providence gives you an indication and opportunity to talk with her in a way that would likely be helpful.
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  #116  
Old 14th July 2011, 05:01 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
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Ron,
how does the church deal with the converts to Catholic like for example a muslim man to who has more than one wife. Will this still be a natural marriage?
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  #117  
Old 14th July 2011, 11:05 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Ron,
how does the church deal with the converts to Catholic like for example a muslim man to who has more than one wife. Will this still be a natural marriage?

A convert who have multiple spouses must find some way to separate from all but one (or from all), with as little harm as possible. He cannot keep his wives. Christians cannot have a natural only marriage. They can only have the Sacrament of Marriage.

39. And since the valid matrimonial consent among the faithful was constituted by Christ as a sign of grace, the sacramental nature is so intimately bound up with Christian wedlock that there can be no true marriage between baptized persons "without it being by that very fact a sacrament." Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii.
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  #118  
Old 14th July 2011, 09:44 PM
VKallin VKallin is offline
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Default The concept of one wife

Ron, was it not common in the old testament days for men to have multiple wives? When survival was the highest order of business, large families were required for saftey and large tribes were an even greater measure of security. The primary role for women was to produce children. I know that in Sacred Scripture, Christ condemned divorce, but somewhere along the line, the practice of one man and woman in a marriage became accepted as the norm. Did Christ establish this, or did the church bring about this custom?

Last edited by VKallin : 14th July 2011 at 09:45 PM. Reason: correction
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  #119  
Old 14th July 2011, 09:57 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Ron, was it not common in the old testament days for men to have multiple wives? When survival was the highest order of business, large families were required for saftey and large tribes were an even greater measure of security. The primary role for women was to produce children. I know that in Sacred Scripture, Christ condemned divorce, but somewhere along the line, the practice of one man and woman in a marriage became accepted as the norm. Did Christ establish this, or did the church bring about this custom?

When Christ established the Sacrament of Marriage, He chose that this Sacrament could only validly exist between one man and one woman. It was always interent to the Sacrament that one cannot have multiple spouses at the same time.

Whether natural marriage allows for multiple wives in some circumstances is an open theological question. It seems from the Old Testament that multiple wives is not intrinsically evil in a natural marriage, so it would be permitted in some circumstances. But I would also argue that those circumstances do not generally exist today in modern society. The circumstance of the survival of the human race does not seem to apply any more.

The same can be said of incest in the collateral line (siblings and first cousins). Initially this was necessary, after Adam and Eve began to procreate. But soon it was unnecessary. Though we do have the example of Moses marrying his half sister. In modern society, there is no dire circumstance that would allow marrying in the collateral line to the first or second degree.

Incest in the direct line (offspring) is intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral.
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  #120  
Old 14th July 2011, 11:16 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default How I handled two questionable marriages and a question of my own

A relative divorced and remarried without having gotten an annulment and, supposedly got an annulment later on. She married someone who had never been married but she had a Catholic marriage so without a prior annulment her second marriage was invalid. A friend married a non-Catholic outside of a Church setting.

I did not attend either ceremony because I felt that to do so would be to acknowledge and even support what was being done. I had a lot of family strife in the case of my relative, but I felt God comes before family. I have since pretty much made up with the relative. Was I correct in my actions?

Secondly, my sister-in-law and her husband attended a lesbian wedding. Is that a mortal sin which they must confess otherwise all the communions they have had since then have been sacrilegious?
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