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  #1  
Old 31st July 2012, 12:28 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Faithful disagreement

The Church has two types of authority:
1. spiritual authority (the teaching authority of the Magisterium)
2. temporal authority

The doctrines of the Church are Her teachings. Infallible doctrines are called dogmas. But the Church also has discipline, in addition to doctrine. The doctrines are of the spiritual authority, the disciplines are of the temporal authority.

The temporal authority issues general rules as well as rulings in particular cases. Things that fall under this authority include Canon law (except when the Canon is a direct expression of a teaching on faith or morals), decisions of the Pope in particular cases (not on doctrine), decision of the local Bishop, rules for religious orders, the form of the Mass, etc.

The teachings of the Magisterium are either infallible (no possibility of error) or non-infallible (limited possibility of error). The rules and rulings of the temporal authority are fallible (except for dogmatic facts).

The faithful can, to a limited extent, faithfully dissent from a non-infallible teaching, because these teachings are not guaranteed to be without error. The faithful can also disagree with a rule or ruling of the temporal authority, because these are not teachings that require assent.

For example, a faithful Catholic might disagree with the rule that permits Communion in the hand. A faithful Catholic might disagree with a decision of the Pope on whether a nation or state should have the death penalty, or whether it should be applied in some cases. A faithful Catholic might disagree with a decision of the Pope as to whether a particular war is just or unjust.

A faithful Catholic might disagree with a decision of a local Bishop or of the Holy See as to whether a claimed private revelation is true or false. So if the Medjugorje Commission condemns the apparitions, the faithful can disagree without sin, even if the Pope approves of the decision.
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Old 31st July 2012, 01:19 AM
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Sacredcello Sacredcello is offline
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Is the Church teaching on the indissolubility of marriage a doctrine or a discipline? So, if one divorces and remarries outside the Church, but claims not to be interested in an annulment of the prior marriage, yet continues to receive communion - this is not an example of faithful disagreement, but rather an example of illicit dissent?
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Old 31st July 2012, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sacredcello View Post
Is the Church teaching on the indissolubility of marriage a doctrine or a discipline? So, if one divorces and remarries outside the Church, but claims not to be interested in an annulment of the prior marriage, yet continues to receive communion - this is not an example of faithful disagreement, but rather an example of illicit dissent?

The indissolubility of the Sacrament of Marriage is a dogma, which requires the full assent of faith (theological assent).

Behavior contrary to a magisterial teaching on a matter of morality is sinful. Sometimes this sin is accompanied by a failure to believe the teaching on morals; other times not.

If the person does not believe in the indissolubility of marriage, this would be illicit dissent (actually, the sin of heresy). If the person believes, but acts against that belief anyway, it is a sin, but not a type of dissent.
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Old 31st July 2012, 05:56 AM
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I know of 2 Catholics that separated back in the 80s and never remarried nor were with anyone else since the separation. Is there some sin in this as far as marriage vows to love honor and cherish until death?
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Old 31st July 2012, 12:37 PM
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I know of 2 Catholics that separated back in the 80s and never remarried nor were with anyone else since the separation. Is there some sin in this as far as marriage vows to love honor and cherish until death?

For a grave reason, a couple who have the Sacrament of Marriage may separate, with the bond remaining, and not remarry. They may even obtain a civil divorce. It would be a sin, if they lack a grave reason, or if the separation is reasonably anticipated to do more harm than good.
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Old 31st July 2012, 03:25 PM
tapinu33 tapinu33 is offline
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I know someone who was married in the Catholic Church then divorced and received an annulment. There were no children. She then remarried to a non Catholic in a civil service. They then had children. She was away from the Church during that time. She is now back with the Church and her children are baptized Catholic. Is she committing a sin here by not being married in the Church?
Her Priest is ok with this but I don't feel it is right but who am I to tell her that?
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Old 31st July 2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapinu33 View Post
I know someone who was married in the Catholic Church then divorced and received an annulment. There were no children. She then remarried to a non Catholic in a civil service. They then had children. She was away from the Church during that time. She is now back with the Church and her children are baptized Catholic. Is she committing a sin here by not being married in the Church?
Her Priest is ok with this but I don't feel it is right but who am I to tell her that?

I have heard many homilies where the priest said that God places each of us in situations in which we are the only person who is able to speak to a friend, family member, co-worker, etc about the faith. The person still might not choose to act in good faith, but at least you have planted a seed, though it may come at personal cost to you.
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Old 31st July 2012, 05:29 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapinu33 View Post
I know someone who was married in the Catholic Church then divorced and received an annulment. There were no children. She then remarried to a non Catholic in a civil service. They then had children. She was away from the Church during that time. She is now back with the Church and her children are baptized Catholic. Is she committing a sin here by not being married in the Church?
Her Priest is ok with this but I don't feel it is right but who am I to tell her that?

Yes, she is sinning by not being married in the Church. The remedy is either convalidation or radical sanation.
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Old 31st July 2012, 08:42 PM
tapinu33 tapinu33 is offline
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I have heard many homilies where the priest said that God places each of us in situations in which we are the only person who is able to speak to a friend, family member, co-worker, etc about the faith. The person still might not choose to act in good faith, but at least you have planted a seed, though it may come at personal cost to you.


Thanks Sacredcello, you are right the seed I shall be a planting!!

Ron
Thanks for clearing that up for me. It is always easier to speak to others when you are armed with knowledge and the correct information.
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Old 31st July 2012, 09:57 PM
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We are back in California now, and I noticed on Sunday and today that the celebrant at Mass uses the old translation during parts of the creed, saying "We believe" instead of "I believe," but using the new translation in all other respects, such as consubstantial, etc.. Also, he was reading it, so this was obviously intentional, to change it back to the old translation. Also, during the weekday Mass in which the Sanctus is not sung, but spoken, he said, "God of power and might" instead of "Lord, God of Hosts", though this latter might have been a slip, but I'm not sure.

Is this an example of faithful disagreement?
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