TS 1: Dogmas and Theology

[js1975]

This topic has been mentioned many times, but the retrospective view has never been mentioned. I think that women have a special role set apart from men as well. When my first two daughters were born, I stood in awe that my wife's body bled for them, literally. This gift is inherent in every single woman. Amazing. I have often believed that women, primarily mothers, have such a natural inclination to love because of this sacrifice. My wife's heart is not at all on fire with the Holy Spirit, but she loves so easily and sacrifices for others without hesitation. I think God uses her in my life to teach me by example how to better love others. In a way, she serves as an example that I try and emulate. Suffering is a mysterious thing, and it is deeply entwined with love, something that I think mankind will never fully comprehend. Just as Jesus bled and died for us to give us life, women suffer and bleed for their children to give them life too. I think this is a mystery created within Eve at the beginning of mankind, foreshadowing Christ's suffering for us, that we may be born to eternal life.

If I was a woman, I would cherish this gift more than any role or responsibility of teaching or leadership, and if all women in the world today understood such a wonderful gift, women's rights would never have occured.

I guess this is a good segway: All you Mother's out there: An early Happy Mother's day!!!

-jay

[Ron Conte]

The idea that women are inherently better than men is a false idea. Both Adam and Eve sinned; both fell from grace. Women do not love more easily than men; women are not better than men. We are all fallen sinners.

Ron

[js1975]

I think I misrepresented my thoughts on paper. I do not think women are better than men. Men and women are equal but different, to me pretty obvious. There has been so much banter about it, and no counterpoint was ever made on the forum. Instead of pointing out what roles women should not assume, I am just pointing out the gifts that women did receive, upon their conception. Would you consider it heretical to say that the pain suffered during childbirth, in a woman in the state of grace, can be included to increase in holiness. Much in the same way that my voluntary suffering for my love of God increases my holiness.

These thoughts I learned from listening to a St. John Vianney Seminary instructor of theology of the body speaking on the topic of Pope John Paul II's Theology of the body. I did not realize it was a heretical statement, my apologies. Maybe I misunderstood or poorly articulated his points.

[Ron Conte]

Originally Posted by js1975

Would you consider it heretical to say that the pain suffered during childbirth, in a woman in the state of grace, can be included to increase in holiness. Much in the same way that my voluntary suffering for my love of God increases my holiness.

Almost any suffering offered to God can be virtuous and contribute to holiness.

I did not say heretical; I only said false.

There is a tendency among some theologians to praise women excessively, and to refrain from any praise for men. This probably results from the influence of modern society, which has the same tendency.


Ron

Ron I have often thought, when I look round the Churches that women have a more inherent attraction for God. I think this when usually when I go to mass the women in the congregation usually outnumber the men by four or five to one.

However when men do turn to God they can do so in a very powerful and extraordinary way. With great sudden fire and graces.They make very powerful warriors of prayer.

I'm not saying one sex is better than another its just a thought I've had down the years. That men and women can travel often a different kind of road in prayer.What do you think? Would this be theologically unacceptable?

[Ron Conte]

Originally Posted by Padraig

Ron I have often thought, when I look round the Churches that women have a more inherent attraction for God. I think this when usually when I go to mass the women in the congregation usually outnumber the men by four or five to one.

However when men do turn to God they can do so in a very powerful and extraordinary way. With great sudden fire and graces.They make very powerful warriors of prayer.

I'm not saying one sex is better than another its just a thought I've had down the years. That men and women can travel often a different kind of road in prayer.What do you think? Would this be theologically unacceptable?

The statement that 'women have a more inherent attraction for God' is theologically unacceptable. It is not at all in agreement with Scripture.

The books of the Bible were written by men, including all four Gospels and all the Epistles. The early Church Fathers are all men. The Twelve Apostles are all men. All the Popes and all the Bishops throughout the history of the Church have been men, as well as all the priests.

This idea that women are holier or better or have some quality that makes them inherently and necessarily closer to God is heretical.

Women can be praised in many ways for many reasons; but men also.

Men, women, and children all have the same human nature; so they are all equal in regard to their nature. Men, women, and children each have their own unique roles; so they are not equal in roles.

Father, Son, and Spirit each share one and the same Divine Nature; so they are equal in regard to their Divine Nature. Father, Son, and Spirit each have their own unique roles in regard to their Divine Personhood; so they are not equal in roles.

As to why there are more women than men at Mass, I think that this is due to the influence of secular society.

Men and women may have different approaches to prayer, but not fundamentally different.

[Therese]

St Christopher is still a saint , but he no longer has a feast day , my understanding is that once sainthood has been given it cannot be taken away.

[Climacus Areopagite]

Originally Posted by Ron Conte

The statement that 'women have a more inherent attraction for God' is theologically unacceptable. It is not at all in agreement with Scripture.

The books of the Bible were written by men, including all four Gospels and all the Epistles. The early Church Fathers are all men. The Twelve Apostles are all men. All the Popes and all the Bishops throughout the history of the Church have been men, as well as all the priests.

This idea that women are holier or better or have some quality that makes them inherently and necessarily closer to God is heretical.

Women can be praised in many ways for many reasons; but men also.

Men, women, and children all have the same human nature; so they are all equal in regard to their nature. Men, women, and children each have their own unique roles; so they are not equal in roles.

Father, Son, and Spirit each share one and the same Divine Nature; so they are equal in regard to their Divine Nature. Father, Son, and Spirit each have their own unique roles in regard to their Divine Personhood; so they are not equal in roles.

As to why there are more women than men at Mass, I think that this is due to the influence of secular society.

Men and women may have different approaches to prayer, but not fundamentally different.

Very interesting discussion. I myself have heard the FASLE idea that women are more inclined to holiness because of the Bride and Bridegroom nonsense. Not so.