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  #1  
Old 8th April 2007, 03:56 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default TS 2: The Bible is infallible

Both Tradition and Scripture are infallible.

Bible contains no errors on faith, morals, salvation, or any other subject about which the Bible makes an assertion.

"But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred." (Pope Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus, n. 20).

"Divine inspiration extends to every part of the Bible without the slightest exception, and that no error can occur in the inspired text...." (Pope Benedict XV, Spiritus Paraclitus, n.21)

"...they put forward again the opinion, already often condemned, which asserts that immunity from error extends only to those parts of the Bible that treat of God or of moral and religious matters." (Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis, n. 22).

Pope Pius X published a Syllabus of Errors, in which he condemned the idea that "Divine inspiration does not extend to all of Sacred Scriptures so that it renders its parts, each and every one, free from every error." (Lamentabili Sane, n. 11).

"everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit" (Vatican II, Dei Verbum, n. 11)

Now I know that it is a popular idea among many theologians and members of the faithful, to narrow the truths of inspiration to only matters pertaining to faith and morals, or only to what is needed for salvation, but such narrowing of the infallibility of the Bible is contrary to the definitive teaching of the Church.

It may at times be difficult to determine what a verse in the Bible is asserting, but one cannot take the position that it is asserting something false. This includes the entire Old Testament, as well as the New Testament. It includes the well-known and well-liked Gospel sayings and also the unpopular teachings of Saint Paul.

Everything asserted by the Bible is being asserted by the Holy Spirit.
All of Sacred Scripture is Christ speaking to us.

The faithful may have some disagreements, within the limits of Church teaching, as to what the proper interpretation of a passage is, but none may assert that the correct interpretation is that the passage teaches a falsehood or a moral error.
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  #2  
Old 8th April 2007, 05:43 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Ron, I heard on Catholic radio the other day that the Bible states- not to be afraid 365 times. I find these takes on numbers interesting. Is there a site that you know of on the study of numerology and the Bible? Thanks, Sammy.
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  #3  
Old 8th April 2007, 08:47 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I don't know about that, and my tendency would be to de-emphasize it.


Ron
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  #4  
Old 9th April 2007, 12:32 AM
Paladin
 
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Default Literal vs. Parable?

So, what is Church teaching regarding literal vs. parable in the Old Testament? ie. the Adam and Eve Genesis story, Jonah and the Whale, etc. That is to say, what is taught to be fact and what is fiction (for lack of a better word)?
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  #5  
Old 9th April 2007, 02:11 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
So, what is Church teaching regarding literal vs. parable in the Old Testament? ie. the Adam and Eve Genesis story, Jonah and the Whale, etc. That is to say, what is taught to be fact and what is fiction (for lack of a better word)?

The theory that the human race began with many progenitors, rather than two (one man and one woman), is irreconcilable with the Catholic faith according to Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII. The idea that the human race began with Adam and Eve is considered the only tenable theological position, however, I don't know of a doctrinal definition on that point.

Other stories are open to a range of theological opinions on the proper interpretation. Some Bible passages are figurative, and others are literal. The Magisterium has not answered these questions.

However, the example of the Saints teaches us to generally believe that such stories are depictions of historical events to some extent. For example, Adam and Eve is perhaps best represented as a dramatic retelling of an historical event. Certain symbols in the story (eating fruit) are a symbolic representation of an actual event, but the event was not eating fruit from a tree; this stands for some type of sin (pride, disobedience).

Concerning Jonah and the whale, my opinion is that this was an actual event. It is, of course, also a figure for the death and resurrection of Christ. But whereas any author can invent a figure composed of mere words, God can compose such figures using actual events.

However, Catholics are free to hold the opinion that the Jonah and the whale story is a mere figure, not an event.

My reason for believing that such OT stories are, in general, based on historical events (perhaps described using various figurative elements) is that Sacred Tradition, as the deeds of God, would be empty if there were no deeds, but only words.


Ron
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  #6  
Old 9th April 2007, 11:13 AM
Love The Fisherman
 
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Default Any Original Texts Available?

Hi Ron,
Why Did The Church Fathers Include The Letter To The Hebrews In The Bible When No One Knows Who Wrote It? Also Are There Any Originals Available To Us Today Written By Say, St. Peter Or St Paul, etc. Or Do We Have Only Old Translations?
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  #7  
Old 9th April 2007, 12:19 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love The Fisherman View Post
Hi Ron,
Why Did The Church Fathers Include The Letter To The Hebrews In The Bible When No One Knows Who Wrote It? Also Are There Any Originals Available To Us Today Written By Say, St. Peter Or St Paul, etc. Or Do We Have Only Old Translations?

None of the original manuscripts of the books of the Bible are extant (still in existance). It is not necessary to know which human author wrote a book, because God is the Author of all the books. We do not know the names of very many of the contributors to the books of the Bible. Books like Genesis, the Psalms, and many other books, may have had many anonymous contributors over the course of time.

Ron
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  #8  
Old 9th April 2007, 06:23 PM
RJP2006 RJP2006 is offline
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Default Good quotes

some good quotes there from the Holy Fathers.
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  #9  
Old 10th April 2007, 04:17 AM
Joan
 
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If God is infallible, then His Word also must be; interpretation is extremely important, cannot be always open to debate. There is correct, and incorrect interpretation, and the Tradition & Magisterium lead us to correct understandings.
Is this correct? Otherwise, without these two strands in the Catholic faith, we'd end up with splinters instead of the Weight Bearing Beams of accepted meanings for Scripture passages; splinters about "full immersion" and "predestination" and all the other tussles that have led to proliferating denominations.

And, the needed corrections to various splinterings, which themselves eventually splinter: the beautiful Wesley family and the deep piety they led was a needed correction to the Protestant denominations--but it too, eventually, faded and now there are two additional varieties of "Methodist"

Last edited by Joan : 10th April 2007 at 04:36 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10th April 2007, 11:07 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan View Post
If God is infallible, then His Word also must be; interpretation is extremely important, cannot be always open to debate. There is correct, and incorrect interpretation, and the Tradition & Magisterium lead us to correct understandings.
Is this correct? Otherwise, without these two strands in the Catholic faith, we'd end up with splinters instead of the Weight Bearing Beams of accepted meanings for Scripture passages; splinters about "full immersion" and "predestination" and all the other tussles that have led to proliferating denominations.

And, the needed corrections to various splinterings, which themselves eventually splinter: the beautiful Wesley family and the deep piety they led was a needed correction to the Protestant denominations--but it too, eventually, faded and now there are two additional varieties of "Methodist"

Yes, that's right; there are correct and incorrect interpretations; the limits of interpretation are determined by Tradition and Magisterium.
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