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  #51  
Old 24th April 2007, 04:46 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by sweet basil View Post
Ron,

On the subject of deacons: Is it true that the early Church had female deacons? Someone told me this one time (a pro-female priest person) but have never come across this.

The early Church has non-ordained women deaconesses. The term deacon comes from a word referring to service. Only later did it come to mean someone ordained to the deaconate.
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  #52  
Old 24th April 2007, 05:41 PM
untamed_angel
 
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If its ok I will wait for the next exercise then Ron? I go to my little prayer group shortly so wont be able to do anything tonight.

God bless
Untamed
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  #53  
Old 24th April 2007, 05:50 PM
sweet basil sweet basil is offline
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Thanks Ron,

That makes sense.
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  #54  
Old 24th April 2007, 08:05 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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I didn't know this information with so much detail before.

Thanks for the information Ron!
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  #55  
Old 25th April 2007, 03:34 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Wink Exercise 2

The Apostolic Constitution 'Benedictus Deus' of Pope Benedict Xll is indeed difficult to judge whether it is
infallible because of the wording. Criterion #5 appears to be missing at first glance, but I believe that it has
been met. After reading this Apostolic Constitution, I consider it an 'infallible' statement. Allow me to show how:

1. (The Roman Pontiff speaks) "The Apostolic Constitution 'Benedictus Deus' of Pope Benedict Xll"

2. (Speaks 'ex cathedra) "with apostolic authority"

3. (We pronounce, declare, and define) "define the following"

4. (That doctrine concerning faith and morals) The pope states 'ex cathedra' that each soul will be judged immediately after
death; the souls which are judged as having commited good deeds in the body will be rewarded with eternal life in heaven
and the joy of beholding the Beatific Vision. These are the children of the Resurrection. The souls which are judged as having
committed evil acts or have led evil lives in the flesh will be condemned to eternal punishment in Hell and denied the eternal
joy of the Beatific Vision in God's presence. (Pope Benedict alludes to the doctrine of Purgatory established by Gregory 1,
in 593 AD, by mentioning the purification of the elect pending their admittance into heaven, but this doctrine became
dogma by the Council of Florence in 1493. Perhaps some theologians argue that the Apostolic Constitution of Pope Benedict Xll
is non-infallible because of the allusion to Purgatory.) In any event, Pope Benedict is stating 'ex cathedra' that our souls will be
judged immediately after death and that our eternal destiny will be decided by our deeds on earth. {cf. 2 Cor 5:10}

5. (Must be held by the whole Church) "which is to remain in force forever" This clause presupposes that Catholics are
obligated to believe in what is stated in this Apostolic Constitution. The items of belief are irrefutable and irrevocable.

The Apostolic Constitution 'Benedictus Deus' of Pope Benedict Xll is 'infallible' according to my judgment.
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  #56  
Old 25th April 2007, 11:26 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Good.

The Council of Florence did not have most of its decrees approved by the Pope, so its teachings remain under the ordinary Magisterium.


Ron
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  #57  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:35 PM
CRW
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
It was intentional. Afterwards, he was asked why he specified
priestly ordination, and not ordination entirely, and he replied
that ordination to the deaconate was still an open question.

Ron,

I found this interesting document that confirms that the question is still "open for debate" but for now is not to be.

Code: ZE02101702

Date: 2002-10-17

Theological Commission's Statement on Women's Ordination to Diaconate

"Tends to Support the Exclusion of This Possibility"

VATICAN CITY, OCT. 17, 2002 (Zenit.org).- Here is the statement of the International Theological Commission, published today, on its recently approved document on the question of women's ordination to the diaconate.

* * *

The general secretary of the International Theological Commission, Father Georges Cottier, O.P., has responded to certain questions about the Commission's study of the diaconate raised by the October 8th issue of La Croix. Fr. Cottier stated that the Commission's study has not concluded that the possibility that women could be ordained to the diaconate remains open, as asserted by La Croix, but rather tends to support the exclusion of this possibility.

The Commission of theologians, even if it has not the role of pronouncing with the authority, which is characteristic of the Magisterium, presented two important indications which emerge from study of the matter. In the first place, the Commission observed that the deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the early Church cannot simply be assimilated to ordained deacons. In support of this conclusion, Fr. Cottier noted that both the rite of institution and the functions exercised by deaconesses distinguished them from ordained deacons.

Furthermore, Fr. Cottier noted that the Commission's study reaffirmed the unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders. The distinction between the ministry of bishops and priests, on the one hand, and that of deacons, on the other hand, is nonetheless embraced within the unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders. The Commission's reaffirmation of this teaching arose from a careful study of the ecclesial tradition, of the documents of the Second Vatican Council, and of the postconciliar Magisterium of the Church.

Fr. Cottier stated that "it belongs to the Magisterium to pronounce with authority on the question, taking into account the historical and theological research presented by the study of the International Theological Commission."

The International Theological Commission devoted over five years of research to the topic of the history and theology of the diaconate before approving the text of its study at its recently concluded meeting. The study was produced at the request of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
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  #58  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:46 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The commission has no ability or authority to exercise the Magisterium.

Also, recall that a commission appointed by Pope Paul VI to study the question of contraception found that contraception was not always immoral, but the Pope and the Church clearly teaches to the contrary.

It is disconcerting how little insight the ITC has into Catholic theology.


Ron
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  #59  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:53 PM
CRW
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
The commission has no ability or authority to exercise the Magisterium.

Also, recall that a commission appointed by Pope Paul VI to study the question of contraception found that contraception was not always immoral, but the Pope and the Church clearly teaches to the contrary.

It is disconcerting how little insight the ITC has into Catholic theology.


Ron

I agree. I just thought the International Theological Commission would waste five years; if wasted. I wonder if the Pope and those in power, consider theological research when forming their decisions.
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