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  #1  
Old 19th June 2007, 01:32 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default TS 7e: Holy Matrimony

Before the wedding at Cana, the only marriage was a natural marriage, based on the creation of Eve to be a helper to Adam. The parents of the Virgin Mary had a natural marriage, based on the OT convenant, but not a Sacrament of Marriage.

For a valid Sacrament of Marriage, there are three things that are needed:
1. consent
2. consumation
3. proper form (as specified by Canon Law)

The form can be changed to some extent by proper authority in the Church. A Bishop can even dispense from some of the requirements of form.

A valid Sacrament of Marriage continues until the death of one or both of the spouses. Nothing can break the bond of marriage but death (or the general resurrection).

An anullment is a declaration that a valid Marriage never existed. But if the persons making that declaration are mistaken, then the anullment has no power to make a valid Marriage invalid. The Church does not anull marriages; it sometimes declares that a valid Sacrament of marriage never existed. But the valid Sacrament of marriage cannot be anulled.

Marriage is limited to the union of one man with one women. Even the Church does not have the authority or ability to change that requirement.

Marriages in Protestant Churches are not generally accepted as valid Sacraments of Marriage in the Catholic Church, due to the requirements of form not being met. This can be remedied by new converts by a brief private ceremony with a parish priest.


Ron
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Old 19th June 2007, 02:13 PM
Joey Joey is offline
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"Marriages in Protestant Churches are not generally accepted as valid Sacraments of Marriage in the Catholic Church, due to the requirements of form not being met."

Ron, what is meant by 'not generally accepted'? Could you give an example of a case that would be? I ask because I have a Catholic friend who married in the Lutheran church over 20 years ago. She wanted to return to the sacraments recently, and was informed by the priest that she need only to go to Confession, and then she was back in. I'm having trouble with this, unless there are things that I don't know or understand. Her husband, a non-Catholic, will not consent to the marriage being sanctioned in the church.
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  #3  
Old 19th June 2007, 02:26 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Protestant marriages are not valid Sacraments of Marriage, because they do not adhere to the proper form required by the Church. They have only a natural marriage.

I should not have used the phrase 'not generally accepted'; it is an inaccurate term.

The priest who told your friend that was mistaken. She should consult with the Bishop of the diocese.



Ron
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Old 19th June 2007, 02:35 PM
CRW
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
An annulment is a declaration that a valid Marriage never existed. But if the persons making that declaration are mistaken, then the annulment has no power to make a valid Marriage invalid.Ron

Ron,

What effect, if any, does it have on an individual if the Church grants an annulment by mistake and performs a valid sacramental marriage to another?

Cecil
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  #5  
Old 19th June 2007, 02:58 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Ron, if the protestant unions are not valid sacramental marriages and instead natural unions, does separation or divorce in these couples not incur as serious a consequence of sin as sacramentally valid unions?
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Old 19th June 2007, 03:35 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by CRW View Post
Ron,

What effect, if any, does it have on an individual if the Church grants an annulment by mistake and performs a valid sacramental marriage to another?

Cecil

The second marriage is not a valid Sacrament at all. It is a natural marriage, if the first marriage was a valid Sacrament and the spouses are both still alive.
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Old 19th June 2007, 03:35 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by sammy View Post
Ron, if the protestant unions are not valid sacramental marriages and instead natural unions, does separation or divorce in these couples not incur as serious a consequence of sin as sacramentally valid unions?

It is less serious when separation or divorce occurs in a natural marriage, and more serious when these occur in a Sacrament of Marriage.
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Old 19th June 2007, 04:25 PM
Joey Joey is offline
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Ron,
How does one determine if an annulment was granted by mistake? Is this something that will only be discovered after death? What would the consequences be for persons who are living in a natural marriage, thinking that it is sacramentally valid? Now we are talking about ME here, not a friend. I postponed an annulment process for my first marriage for the VERY REASON that you are citing....I was worried that one would be granted regardless of circumstances. After much praying and talking to priests, I was told that not all cases are granted. So I pursued it and it went through. It has always tugged at me a little bit; there has been some residual doubt. Your words today don't rattle me to the bone, yet I am now once again questioning validity. Maybe this is something that will be revealed to me during the Warning. I pray that it will.
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  #9  
Old 19th June 2007, 08:39 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default I also wonder about the validity of annulments

Like Joey, I too wonder about the validity of annulments. If a person is in a shell of a marriage with a spouse who verbally abuses, demeans, mocks and generally disrespects that person, what is that person to do?

Does the Church want them to stay in such a predicament despite the obvious torment, suffering and stress of that situation?

What if that other person does not want to go to counseling, refuses to try anything to work on the marriage and demonstrates in many ways that he or she either never had or has completely given up on the true concept of marriage which is two people as one willing to work on things for better or worse, in sickness or in health, till death do them part? What is the other person who has always believed in the sanctity and permanence of marriage to do?

Simply put, I agree that people should not receive annulments in cases where the other spouse is not doing anything destructive to the marriage and family and the spouse seeking the annulment just wants an out. But what about those cases where that other spouse is psychologically, verbally and emotionally abusing the spouse considering seeking an annulment. Does the Church say grin and bear it?
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  #10  
Old 19th June 2007, 09:29 PM
Joan
 
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Default Muddied Waters

As I read through this thread, it seems the waters are muddied by issues other than Sacrament of Marriage:

1)Natural Marriage is considered as a binding marriage, even if not Sacramental; i.e., I married a non-Christian before my conversion to the faith. My marriage is, nonetheless, binding upon me. It is not Sacramental, but it is not sinful.
2)Receiving the Sacraments of the Church is not necessarily precluded to people in a natural marriage--correct or not correct? I was Confirmed and received into the Faith, and have been partaking in the Blessed Sacrament, and surely this is not a violation of Canon Law?
3)Spousal abuse is not grounds for annulment of a Sacramental Catholic marriage, is it? Divorce is not permitted for any grounds whatsoever, including adultery and abuse. Only Separation is recognized by the Church. Annulment of an invalid marriage, and separation are the only recognized Catholic options

Where have I gone wrong in these points, if I have misunderstood?

Last edited by Joan : 19th June 2007 at 09:35 PM.
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