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  #21  
Old 11th July 2007, 05:07 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Climacus Areopagite View Post
wow you are really good on the quotes. I thought there was one more different one. I still am looking.

Here is another one:

[Revelation 21]
{21:1} I saw the new heaven and the new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more.
{21:2} And I, John, saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.
{21:3} And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: “Behold the tabernacle of God with men. And he will dwell with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be their God with them.
{21:4} And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no more. And neither mourning, nor crying out, nor grief shall be anymore. For the first things have passed away.”
{21:5} And the One who was sitting upon the throne, said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And he said to me, “Write, for these words are entirely faithful and true.”
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  #22  
Old 11th July 2007, 05:15 PM
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Ron, I got another question:

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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post

Also, different persons in Heaven have their reward and their degree of holiness according to how they lived their lives. There are some who are the least in the kingdom of Heaven, and there are others who are the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven.

Their reward and degree of holiness will be determinate only for those who go straight to Heaven and those who go to Heaven through Purgatory will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven?

Or people who go to Heaven through Purgatory will also have greater reward than fellow people who go to Heaven through Purgatory but with more venial sins?
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  #23  
Old 11th July 2007, 06:20 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Their reward and degree of holiness will be determinate only for those who go straight to Heaven and those who go to Heaven through Purgatory will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven?

Or people who go to Heaven through Purgatory will also have greater reward than fellow people who go to Heaven through Purgatory but with more venial sins?

The reward and degree of holiness depends on how you lived your life, and it has little or nothing to do with whether or not you went to heaven directly or by way of Purgatory.

It is not only the amount of sin, but also the amount of holiness and good works, that determines one's place in Heaven.
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  #24  
Old 12th July 2007, 05:49 AM
RJP2006 RJP2006 is offline
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Default An eternal wedding party

I never like it when a party ends and everyone has to go. A good party like that during a wedding, is a delight worshipping God together at Mass and feasting, singing, dancing, laughing afterwards. I like to think of Heaven this way, though it pales in comparison obviously, but catches a glimmer of what eternal celebration is like.
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  #25  
Old 12th July 2007, 11:12 AM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron
[I
All are entirely happy, beyond what anyone on earth could imagine. If this blessed happiness is compared to a cup which is filled to the brim, one soul may be like a thimble and another like a bucket, but both are still entirely filled with happiness, and even overflowing.[/i]

Why does a soul not anguish or pine after a loved dearest one that is still remaining on Earth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
[I
The only persons in Heaven who are present in body and soul are Jesus and Mary. [/i]

The Bible says, ". . . Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11). Interpeting this passage one gets the sense of him going up into heaven in a physical form by a whirlwind, since Elisha saw this happen with his own eyes!
But didn't Jesus say "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the son of man, which is in heaven"? (John 3:13). So on one hand Elisha is saying Elijah went upto heaven, yet Jesus claimed no one had been to heaven before he ascended? - Is there anyway of how we can reconcile this contradiction of terms?

Last edited by Paul Bellett : 12th July 2007 at 11:19 AM.
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  #26  
Old 12th July 2007, 11:29 AM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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On closer analysis, Elisha may only have used the term 'heaven' just as a substitute for what we know now as the Earth's sky or atmosphere, as the real heaven is in another dimension! Just one of those passages of getting the correct translation depending on the context of the verses of scripture
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  #27  
Old 12th July 2007, 12:24 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Everyone who ever will get to Heaven (the first heaven) is already there. So no one is pining for a loved one; they are already together.


Yes, Elijah went up to heaven as in the heavens (the sky). But it is also possible that he and Enoch were each briefly brought to heaven to visit, to be strengthened for their task as the two prophets, and then brought forward in time to act as the two prophets of Revelation. They could go to Heaven because Heaven is beyond Time, so much so that Christ would already have opened its gates.

After their task described in Revelation, both prophets are killed, then resurrected, then brought up to heaven, which leaves us with much the same problem, since at that time it appears they were brought up to heaven itself.

They could have been brought up to heaven in body and soul again briefly, then brought forward in time again, so that they were next present for the first Resurrection, at the time after Christ and Mary's return.

I'll have to think about this some more.
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  #28  
Old 12th July 2007, 01:50 PM
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Default Animals...

Thanks Ron, I have another question regarding animals. Even though animals are not created in God’s Image and Likeness, they have a purpose in our life, they were created to be governed by man. Before the fall I suppose Adam commanded them to do any thing he wanted and they obeyed with not training beforehand. Today, some animals are aggressive and cannot be domesticated; however, there are also those that are meek or gentle like some dogs that are great company for humans, some times, even better friends than fellow humans. JesusCrist Himself is compared to a lamb because of this animal’s characteristics. Humans use animals for their purposes, they help us just as many of the Saints have required their help. In battle St. Joan of Ark needed a horse. It is said that St. Francis of Assisi talked with animals and they used to come to him. A donkey was born to carry Jesus to enter Jerusalem and I can go on and on but the question is, if we humans fall in love with some of these animals, is it possible that we can see them again in heaven or the new earth?

Once in Heaven, can we tell God, “I would like my pet again here in Heaven” would He grant us that wish? Or once our pets die, then, his purpose in life also ended.

I understand that there are animals in Heaven, in the book of Revelation we read that our Lord will come on a white horse; even if it's metaphorical, we see how the Word of God uses animal characteristics to describe power, aggressiveness or meekness. So in the new earth I imagine new kind or species of animals there besides the ones we are familiar with (plants, garden too) and they will never die since death of the animals and everything on earth were also affected by the original sin.

In short, can you tell us your view of animals in heaven and/or the new earth?

Last edited by Brother : 12th July 2007 at 01:52 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12th July 2007, 03:00 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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on the question of animals, heaven, and the new earth:

There are no bodies in heaven but the human bodies of Jesus and Mary. So there are no animals in the first heaven. In the new heaven, likewise, there are no animals, since all in Heaven have the Beatific Vision and since one can only have the Beatific Vision by means of Baptism. Animals cannot be baptized, and do not have immortal souls.

None of the Blessed in Heaven inordinately desire a pet, nor do any of them have any undue attachment to a pet.

In the new earth, there will certainly be animals, domesticated as well as wild; but even the wild ones will be well behaved (as Isaiah says). Animals do not have any kind of resurrection, so once a pet has died it is not returned to the individual after the general resurrection on the new earth.
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  #30  
Old 12th July 2007, 03:37 PM
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Thanks Ron.
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