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Old 14th July 2007, 11:29 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default TS 8c: Purgatory

Since you all know the basics about Purgatory, I'll just add a few additional thoughts.

Anyone who dies in a state of actual mortal sin goes to Hell forever.

All other persons go to Heaven, at least through Purgatory.

Persons who go to Purgatory:

1. Those who have repented from actual mortal sin, but who have not done sufficient penance to make up for the harm done by that sin prior to death.

2. Those who have not repented from actual venial sin, no matter what penances they have done.

3. Those who have repented from actual venial sin, but have not done sufficient penance. These sins can include objective mortal sins with reduced culpability, making them actually venial though objectively mortal. Much more penance is required of such sins.

Even some canonized Saints may have done some time in Purgatory. It is possible that a Saint may have a higher degree of holiness in one setting, such as a cloister. Nevertheless, God may call that person into the active life, so that they have a lower degree of holiness and may spend a brief time in Purgatory.

Conversely, some great sinners might spend no time in Purgatory, if they make a whole hearted confession and receive communion and last rites prior to death, and if their death-bed repentance is so full as to constitute also a sufficient penance for their sins.

In my opinion, all those persons who died prior to Christ spent at least some time in the upper level of Purgatory, so that they would know Christ before entering Heaven. No one enters Heaven except through Christ, including the angels, and human beings who are non-Christian.


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Old 14th July 2007, 02:31 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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How does someone feel like in purgatory? Is there a cleansing fire? People in purgatory suffer for the temporal punishment due to sins committed but do they get consolation for the good deeds they did? Do they rejoice at the thought of heaven?
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Old 14th July 2007, 03:25 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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How does someone feel like in purgatory? Is there a cleansing fire? People in purgatory suffer for the temporal punishment due to sins committed but do they get consolation for the good deeds they did? Do they rejoice at the thought of heaven?

The pains of Purgatory are greater than any pains on earth.
Hell contains literal fire, which can affect even what is non-corporeal (fallen angels and souls), but Purgatory does not contain literal fire.
Purgatory, even at its lowest level, is closer to Heaven than to Hell.

All the souls in Purgatory know with certainty that they are saved and will eventually arrive at eternal life in Heaven.

The souls in Purgatory have many consolations, from the prayers of the faithful on earth and in Heaven, from the Virgin Mary, from a knowledge of their own salvation, and least of all from their own good deeds in life.

The pains of Purgatory are of the soul, not the body. No one in Purgatory has a body. The worst pain is the full realization of the true extent of their own sinfulness in offending God, and secondly, of the harm done by their sins to their neighbor (corresponding to the love of God and neighbor with which the souls in Purgatory are filled.

The souls in Purgatory learn and grow and change.
Change hurts.
They increase in holiness and in knowledge of God, faith, and morals.
They know Christ and Mary better than anyone on earth, at least by the time that they finish their sentence in Purgatory.

They rejoice more over one repentant sinner on earth than over the certain knowledge of their own future joy in Heaven.
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Old 14th July 2007, 03:36 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Thanks. At the end of time purgatory is taken away, so presumambly by that time, all souls that were present there will be in heaven. I presume that at the end of the millennium there will be no more souls needing purgatory, otherwise they would spent very brief time in it. So maybe when Gog and Magog comes most people will be so sinful to go directly to hell, and many more so holy that will go directly to heaven and without going through purgatory (or maybe a very brief stay in it) for purgatory will be taken away soon after. Correct? or am I missing something?
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Old 14th July 2007, 04:24 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Thanks. At the end of time purgatory is taken away, so presumambly by that time, all souls that were present there will be in heaven. I presume that at the end of the millennium there will be no more souls needing purgatory, otherwise they would spent very brief time in it. So maybe when Gog and Magog comes most people will be so sinful to go directly to hell, and many more so holy that will go directly to heaven and without going through purgatory (or maybe a very brief stay in it) for purgatory will be taken away soon after. Correct? or am I missing something?

Purgatory is not taken away until the general Resurrection, at which time the souls from hell, purgatory, and heaven are resurrected. After that time, there is no more need for purgatory, since the resurrected have no concupiscence and no original sin and cannot sin.

Purgatory is beyond Time. So even if someone dies the day before the Resurrection, and even if they need a long stay in Purgatory, they still do their entire time in Purgatory. Purgatory has a different timeline than earth.

Gog and Magog is before the general Resurrection, so if anyone needs even a long stay in Purgatory, they receive it, again because time in Purgatory is not like time on earth.


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Old 14th July 2007, 07:32 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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All right, thanks for the clarification
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Old 14th July 2007, 07:38 PM
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Ron, correct me if I’m wrong.

Since sin entered this world, we all become filthy by it so we have to cleanse ourselves before entering Heaven. That said, in a way, we all have to purge ourselves before entering the Kingdom of God, it can be done so now here on earth or in Purgatory after dieing with unpaid venial sins. Something that all the great Saints and martyrs in Christ have in common is that they all have suffered, many of them were "the last" here on earth, they carried their crosses in the Name of Christ, so many of them did already their purgatory here on this earth so they may have entered straight to Heaven. Even if great sinners, during the last time of their lives, accept Christ during their suffering in sickness or martyrdom, it is like they are purging already here on earth and since it is before they die, they gain more merits than suffering in Purgatory after they die, so they can go straight to Heaven. If their sufferings offered to God weren’t enough to pay their sins, then I think they can go to Purgatory but not for too long.

Now, a question here, you said that Purgatory is closer to Heaven than to Hell, that means very close right? This would mean that Purgatory is close to Heaven (closer) and close to Hell too, I said this because of the story of rich man who went to Hell and could see the beggar with Abraham and even talk to them, unless this place was Limbo (place were the Saints of the O.T. dwelt until Jesus’ Redemption) and not Purgatory?

Last edited by Brother : 14th July 2007 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 14th July 2007, 09:13 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Now, a question here, you said that Purgatory is closer to Heaven than to Hell, that means very close right? This would mean that Purgatory is close to Heaven (closer) and close to Hell too, I said this because of the story of rich man who went to Hell and could see the beggar with Abraham and even talk to them, unless this place was Limbo (place were the Saints of the O.T. dwelt until Jesus’ Redemption) and not Purgatory?

The first paragraph you wrote is well said.

I don't think that Purgatory is close to Hell at all. It is very far from Hell, because all the souls in Purgatory are in a state of grace and their next stop is eternal life in Heaven.

It is possible for some of the souls in Purgatory to be suffering more than some of the souls in Hell, in terms of pain itself. However, those suffering in Hell have no hope, have a bitterness that penetrates to the core of their soul, and have no sanctifying grace or communion with the Saints. So, all things considered, the worst sufferings of Purgatory are very far from the sufferings of Hell.

The beggar Lazarus was in Heaven, not limbo, and the rich man was certainly in Hell.
The conversation between the rich man in Hell and Abraham is figurative.
I do not think that the souls in Hell can communicate with the souls in Heaven.
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Old 15th July 2007, 03:08 AM
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Anyone who dies in a state of actual mortal sin goes to Hell forever.Ron

Ron, Two questions, what if a person lived a sinful past life, with many mortal sins and forgot to confess a mortal sin, would that person also go to hell.

Is penance sufficient when one goes to confession and after being absolved of a particular sin, sins no more in regards to that particular sin?
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Old 15th July 2007, 12:13 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by themilitantcatholic View Post
Ron, Two questions, what if a person lived a sinful past life, with many mortal sins and forgot to confess a mortal sin, would that person also go to hell.

Is penance sufficient when one goes to confession and after being absolved of a particular sin, sins no more in regards to that particular sin?

If you go to confession with sincere repentance, and forget a past sin, it is still forgiven. It need not be confessed in a subsequent confession.

I don't understand the second question.
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