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  #11  
Old 15th July 2007, 05:45 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Thaks Ron.
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  #12  
Old 18th July 2007, 06:56 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Cool Sufficient Penance

Ron, I believe it is right that we do sufficient penance in order to go straight
to heaven. I am wondering how I can reconcile this belief with a message from
the Blessed Virgin to the visionaries in Medjugorje. Perhaps you can shed some light on it:

"Whoever has done very much evil during his life can go straight to Heaven if he confesses,
is sorry for what he has done, and receives (Holy) Communion at the end of his life." [24 July 1982]

Our Lady says nothing about the necessity of doing sufficient penance in order for one
to go straight to Heaven. Is the act of penance - even just one "Hail Mary" implied when
Mary speaks of making a confession? And if the person dies on his death bed before he has
time to say a prayer as an act of penance, does his desire to do penance suffice as the
act itself?

Also, in Luke 16:19-31, we have the story about Lazarus and the rich man. Catholics are
still debating whether the rich man went to Hell or Purgatory. What is your view on this?

Thanks.
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  #13  
Old 18th July 2007, 11:00 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Angel View Post
"Whoever has done very much evil during his life can go straight to Heaven if he confesses,
is sorry for what he has done, and receives (Holy) Communion at the end of his life." [24 July 1982]

His penance is his devout wholehearted conversion and his sorrow for his sins and his reception of the Sacraments.
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  #14  
Old 18th July 2007, 02:24 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Angel View Post
Ron, I believe it is right that we do sufficient penance in order to go straight
to heaven. I am wondering how I can reconcile this belief with a message from
the Blessed Virgin to the visionaries in Medjugorje. Perhaps you can shed some light on it:

"Whoever has done very much evil during his life can go straight to Heaven if he confesses,
is sorry for what he has done, and receives (Holy) Communion at the end of his life." [24 July 1982]

Our Lady says nothing about the necessity of doing sufficient penance in order for one
to go straight to Heaven. Is the act of penance - even just one "Hail Mary" implied when
Mary speaks of making a confession? And if the person dies on his death bed before he has
time to say a prayer as an act of penance, does his desire to do penance suffice as the
act itself?

Also, in Luke 16:19-31, we have the story about Lazarus and the rich man. Catholics are
still debating whether the rich man went to Hell or Purgatory. What is your view on this?

Thanks.

I do not know if I am right, but it is my understanding that the rich man was in hell because there was mention that he could not aspire to the place where Lazarus was. Since souls in purgatory will someday be in heaven, would that not imply that the rich man was in hell since he could not aspire to be where Lazarus was?
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  #15  
Old 18th July 2007, 02:55 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Yes, he was in Hell.
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  #16  
Old 19th July 2007, 09:49 AM
js1975 js1975 is offline
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Ron,

Great info, thanks.

Ironically, I am currently reading a book about Maria Simma, the woman who was able to see and communicate with souls in Purgatory. She mentions that Purgatory has three levels. The lowest level are the souls that barely made it into Purgatory, while the upper layer are souls who are closest to Heaven.

Is this in the realm of Speculative Theology, and if so, what are your thoughts on this?

On a sidebar, she stresses that communion in the hand should not be permitted, and many Bishops are in Purgatory for allowing this to happen.

thanks!!
jay
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2cor 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, most beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of the flesh and of the spirit, perfecting sanctification in the fear of God.
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  #17  
Old 19th July 2007, 12:31 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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She is often stating her own opinion, not something revealed to her privately by God.

Purgatory does not literally have levels. Saying it has three levels is just a figure of speech. I do not consider Purgatory to have three levels or any other number of levels.

However, it is correct to say that some persons spend more time in Purgatory and some less, some persons suffer a great deal and some much less.
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  #18  
Old 22nd July 2007, 03:24 PM
JuanLuis JuanLuis is offline
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why if you repent at your death bed you are saved? Is it fair or accepted? what about those who spent all their life repenting?
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  #19  
Old 22nd July 2007, 03:28 PM
JuanLuis JuanLuis is offline
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another question- what about the people that says that the satan and the other demos don' exist? the ones that do not believe in hell or in an afterlife? and finally the ones that say that they dont want to go to Heaven because they think that it might be boring up there?

Can they be admited to purgatory?
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  #20  
Old 22nd July 2007, 05:39 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanLuis View Post
why if you repent at your death bed you are saved? Is it fair or accepted? what about those who spent all their life repenting?

God is infinitely merciful, so He accepts even a death-bed repentance. However, those who repent on their death bed, usually have more suffering in Purgatory. In the case of someone who repents wholeheartedly and receives the Sacraments very worthily, when near death, and who therefore goes straight to Heaven, such a person has a lower place in Heaven than someone who repented sooner and was able to do more good works and more prayers and more acts self-denial.

The more good a persons does in their life, the more joy their soul will be able to accept in Heaven.
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