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  #21  
Old 31st July 2007, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by themilitantcatholic View Post
What's generationosm?

Generationism was one of the four theological opinions of the origin of individual human souls. It traces the origin of the human soul, as well as the origin of the body, back to the act of generation performed by the parents. Simply -corporeal semen, a part of the soul-substances of the parents is transmitted to the child. This opinion was condemned by Pope Benedict XII. As stated in earlier post, creationism was considered as Church doctrine - that the soul was created out of nothing by God.

Cecil
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  #22  
Old 31st July 2007, 09:21 AM
Love The Fisherman
 
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Hi Ron,
I am dizzy with this thread because it contains so much rich food for me. Could Jesus have saved us and done everything He did if He was not God? Could He have saved us by being a beautiful holy perfect person and dying on the cross for us? Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 31st July 2007, 12:20 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Love The Fisherman View Post
Hi Ron,
I am dizzy with this thread because it contains so much rich food for me. Could Jesus have saved us and done everything He did if He was not God? Could He have saved us by being a beautiful holy perfect person and dying on the cross for us? Thanks.

No mere human person could save humanity from its sins.
Not even the perfect Virgin Mary can save us of herself.
But God Incarnate can save us, because he is both God and man.
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  #24  
Old 31st July 2007, 01:03 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Ron, there is not Generationism of the soul but is there Generationism of the body? What I’m trying to say is that the child carries some physical appearance of their parents or close relatives (Not sure if the word Generationism applies here correctly). So, this would mean that Jesus Christ may have had some physical resemblance to the Virgin Mary? (but as a Man, of course).

Regarding the soul, God creates the soul of a person out of nothing at the moment of conception, that is a fact; but, in general, the Lord decides to pick up some of the natural characteristic of their parents? Like for example, sense of humor, some temper, etc. This is not that the child has the same kind of soul but has carried the same “spirit” as their parents? Which is different. In other words, as there is a saying: “Like father, like son”.

PS: I say this, because my father died when I was young, I don’t know many things about him and many people who knew my father, tells me that I’m so much alike him, thay I have the same (or similar) kind of humor and temper (thinks I didn’t know about him but that I act naturally), they are not talking about physically but the way I am.
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  #25  
Old 31st July 2007, 01:18 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The concept of generationism of the soul is based on the natural generation of the body. So, yes, the body is generated from both parents, such that the child's body is derived from the parents bodies.

When body and soul are united, they are so thoroughly united that the soul and body influence one another. So the characteristics you describe are not put in the soul by God directly, but are a result of the uniting of body and soul. In other words, those characteristics are of the body and of the influence of the body on the soul.

When body and soul are united, their close interaction and unity results in spirit, which is the effects of this unity. The characteristics you describe are of the spirit, that is, they are effects of the union of body and soul.

So, no, God does not directly pattern the soul of the child after those of the parents. For what if the parents had sinful souls? Would God be constrained to create a sinful soul in the child? By no means!

Jesus has Mary as his sole immediate ancestor. So he certainly inherited physical characteristics from her. However, the Holy Spirit must have made changes, more than what was merely needed to produce a male child, such that Jesus in his human body would be all that God intended, without being contrained by which dna (genes) Mary possessed.


Ron
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  #26  
Old 31st July 2007, 01:34 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default Thanks for the clarification

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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
In my opinion, that is a very poor analogy.

The Three Persons of the Trinity share one and the same Divine Nature.
God is One Divine Eternal Act:
the act of being everything that God is
and of doing everything that God does
including the procession of the Son from the Father
and the procession of the Spirit primarily from the Father and secondarily from the Son

So the Divine Personhood of the Three Persons is not at all separate from the One Divine Nature

Thanks, I understand what you mean and will keep that in mind
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  #27  
Old 31st July 2007, 02:14 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Thanks again Ron.
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  #28  
Old 31st July 2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
So, no, God does not directly pattern the soul of the child after those of the parents. For what if the parents had sinful souls? Would God be constrained to create a sinful soul in the child? By no means!
Ron

That begs the question of original sin. The soul created by God is, according to its natural constitution good. God is not to be blamed for the fact that the newly created soul is denied the supernatural endowment, but man is who misused his freedom. Generation is objectively good; however, original sin enters whenever a child of Adam enters existence.

Cecil
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  #29  
Old 31st July 2007, 04:07 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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The soul created by God lacks sanctifying grace, which must be sought and found in life. This is not unjust, since God gives each and every person the opportunity for salvation.

The body created by procreation is in a fallen state: the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

So God does not create a sinful soul, but merely one which must seek and find Him.
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  #30  
Old 31st July 2007, 04:30 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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I love this thread
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