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  #21  
Old 2nd September 2007, 08:48 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by garabandalg View Post
Ron, given what you have said here, how can we reconcile all we constantly hear about Mary's obedience and humility since it seems you are saying that she had no choice but to obey?

She freely chose to obey God,
and she was unable to choose to disobey God.

From my book, which I am currently working on:

Mary had free will and was unable to sin; there is no conflict or contradiction in this statement. Free will, in sinning, reduces its own freedom. Thus, sin diminishes free will and is contradictory to free will. It is not correct to say that free will is not free unless it either sins or has the opportunity to sin. Mary's free will was perfect, and therefore her free will was unable to choose to sin. For sin contradicts and harms the true value and purpose of free will, which is to obey and to serve God. Mary's perfection was so full that she was created, from the first moment of her creation, with a perfect harmony between her free will and the will of God, such that she was entirely unable to sin, even as a sheer possibility, yet her free will was unrestricted and uncompromised.
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  #22  
Old 2nd September 2007, 10:26 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
She freely chose to obey God,
and she was unable to choose to disobey God.

From my book, which I am currently working on:



What book Ron?
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  #23  
Old 3rd September 2007, 12:40 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Cool Mary's Free Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
She freely chose to obey God,
and she was unable to choose to disobey God.

From my book, which I am currently working on:

Mary had free will and was unable to sin; there is no conflict or contradiction in this statement. Free will, in sinning, reduces its own freedom. Thus, sin diminishes free will and is contradictory to free will. It is not correct to say that free will is not free unless it either sins or has the opportunity to sin. Mary's free will was perfect, and therefore her free will was unable to choose to sin. For sin contradicts and harms the true value and purpose of free will, which is to obey and to serve God. Mary's perfection was so full that she was created, from the first moment of her creation, with a perfect harmony between her free will and the will of God, such that she was entirely unable to sin, even as a sheer possibility, yet her free will was unrestricted and uncompromised.

It is amazing how many evangelical Protestants deny Mary had a free will
when she pronounced her 'Fiat' in the Annunciation. They argue that she
was so compelled to accept God's will that she deserves no praise from
Christians. In other words, she really had no choice in the matter. God's
plan would come to fruition whether she liked it or not. These are the same
Christians who argue that there is absolutely no salvific and redemptive
merit in our suffering. We do not make up in our afflictions what is lacking in
the sufferings of Christ. We are not free co-workers with Christ in restoring
a fallen world. If Mary had no free will when responding to the angel Gabriel,
then mankind has no responsibility to undo the sin of Adam, although he
freely chose to disobey God. God does not force us to obey Him.
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  #24  
Old 3rd September 2007, 06:39 AM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
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Default In other words,,,,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
She freely chose to obey God,
and she was unable to choose to disobey God.

From my book, which I am currently working on:

Mary had free will and was unable to sin; there is no conflict or contradiction in this statement. Free will, in sinning, reduces its own freedom. Thus, sin diminishes free will and is contradictory to free will. It is not correct to say that free will is not free unless it either sins or has the opportunity to sin. Mary's free will was perfect, and therefore her free will was unable to choose to sin. For sin contradicts and harms the true value and purpose of free will, which is to obey and to serve God. Mary's perfection was so full that she was created, from the first moment of her creation, with a perfect harmony between her free will and the will of God, such that she was entirely unable to sin, even as a sheer possibility, yet her free will was unrestricted and uncompromised.

So are you saying that true free will, in its most perfect sense and nature, is really freedom from sin and freely chosing sin is actually an aberration or distortion of pure, true free will which was meant only to serve and obey God?
In other words, to "choose" sin is to freely choose not to choose that (God) which is the only goal worth choosing?
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  #25  
Old 3rd September 2007, 12:04 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Climacus Areopagite View Post
What book Ron?

I'm revising and publishing in print my book:
New Insights into the Deposit of Faith

Should be ready in October, maybe.
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  #26  
Old 3rd September 2007, 12:05 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garabandalg View Post
So are you saying that true free will, in its most perfect sense and nature, is really freedom from sin and freely chosing sin is actually an aberration or distortion of pure, true free will which was meant only to serve and obey God?
In other words, to "choose" sin is to freely choose not to choose that (God) which is the only goal worth choosing?

Yes.
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  #27  
Old 4th September 2007, 04:04 PM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Cool The Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Sorry, Ron. My question doesn't strictly concern this Teaching topic, but I have to ask you
for your comment on a matter of Mary's perpetual virginity. Non-Catholics criticize the early
Church Fathers, notably Origen, for having referred to the apocryphal Protogospel of
James to base his beliefs and teachings on Mary's perpetual virginity. Where do you stand against
such criticism? Thanks.

Justin Angel
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  #28  
Old 4th September 2007, 09:40 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Angel View Post
Sorry, Ron. My question doesn't strictly concern this Teaching topic, but I have to ask you
for your comment on a matter of Mary's perpetual virginity. Non-Catholics criticize the early
Church Fathers, notably Origen, for having referred to the apocryphal Protogospel of
James to base his beliefs and teachings on Mary's perpetual virginity. Where do you stand against
such criticism? Thanks.

Justin Angel

The non-canonical gospels are not evil; they are merely human books, not divinely inspired, of varying quality and value. They may have some usefulness in revealing the ideas of ordinary Christians in the early Church.

The dogma of Mary's perpetual virginity is based on Tradition and Scripture. Non-Catholics do not believe in Tradition, and they don't believe that Scripture contains implicit truths, not immediately apparent. You can't adopt their erroneous premises, and then arrive from their at the truth. Flawed premises lead to a flawed conclusion.

Ron
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  #29  
Old 5th September 2007, 12:00 PM
trswago trswago is offline
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Thumbs up Ive been away

Ron
I must say this is incredible stuff!! TS 11a Mariology has been one of my favorite TS's
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  #30  
Old 6th September 2007, 08:31 PM
Padraig
 
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a great mystery. I will pray more about this thank you.
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