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Old 3rd April 2009, 11:17 PM
sammy sammy is offline
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Default bishop obedience

Ron, it seems to me that even if a priest and bishop is wrong, we should be obedient to them if they are our bishop or head of the parish so long as we do not go against matters opposed to the faith and magisterium of the church. In the matter of medjugorje, the current and former bishop oppose the apparitions. Since the apparitions are not part of "the deposit of Faith", should the seers not have gone against the bishop and closed things down so to speak. Doesn't it seem that the Mother of God would have agreed to follow the decision of the Church in as much as a bishop has jurisdiction over his diocese? It just seems to me that this would have been the most perfect response of the laity and religious involved. I believe in medjugorje. I am just trying to see both sides and have this explained. Sammy.
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Old 4th April 2009, 12:16 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy View Post
Ron, it seems to me that even if a priest and bishop is wrong, we should be obedient to them if they are our bishop or head of the parish so long as we do not go against matters opposed to the faith and magisterium of the church.
We are all required to do the will of God. When the will of God and the will of man conflict, we should do the will of God.
[Acts]
{4:19} Yet truly, Peter and John said in response to them: "Judge whether it is just in the sight of God to listen to you, rather than to God."

Certainly, at times, we should be cooperative with a judgment of a priest or Bishop, even if we would have judged differently, such as in how a parish or diocese should be run. On the other hand, putting the fallible temporal decisions of a Bishop or priest above what we understand to be true, or to be the will of God concerning what we should do, is not pleasing to God.

Do you not know that Saint Catherine of Siena rebuked several Cardinals, and also rebuked the Pope?

Blind obedience to temporal authority is idolatry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy View Post
In the matter of medjugorje, the current and former bishop oppose the apparitions. Since the apparitions are not part of "the deposit of Faith", should the seers not have gone against the bishop and closed things down so to speak. Doesn't it seem that the Mother of God would have agreed to follow the decision of the Church in as much as a bishop has jurisdiction over his diocese? It just seems to me that this would have been the most perfect response of the laity and religious involved. I believe in medjugorje. I am just trying to see both sides and have this explained. Sammy.

The decision of a local Bishop is not the decision of the Church.

The universal Church includes Christ, the son of Mary, as its head, and the Holy Spirit, the spouse of Mary, as its Spirit. The universal Church includes the countless souls in Heaven and in Purgatory.

The Virgin Mary is the Mother of the Church, so she is not bound by the temporal decisions of a local Bishop.

There are times when a faithful Catholic must dissent from an error within an ordinary non-infallible teaching of the Magisterium, and there are times when a faithful Catholic must disobey a decision of the fallible temporal authority.

This is an important lesson at this time in Church history because, as I understand it, the Church must pass through a brief schism. Many Bishops and Cardinals will go astray. There will be a true Pope and a prominent antipope. You will not be able to merely do whatever the parish priest or local Bishops tells you. What if you are in a parish where the priest has decided to support the antipope? or a diocese where the Bishop has decided the same?
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Old 4th April 2009, 01:25 AM
sammy sammy is offline
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Thank you.
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Old 4th April 2009, 11:36 PM
Jeanne D'Arc
 
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Ron,
If we are alive at the time of the anti-pope, how will we know the true pope?
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Old 5th April 2009, 01:06 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post
Ron,
If we are alive at the time of the anti-pope, how will we know the true pope?

You will not be able to tell by looking at:

which man is more conservative,
or more learned,
or more personable,
or more eloquent,
or more popular,
or which man has the support of more Bishops, priests, and religious.

And neither man will have been elected by the proper rules for electing the Pope as required by UDG (Universi Dominici Gregis).

The true Pope will be the man elected by those Cardinals and Bishops who remained faithful to the previous Pope, and to the teachings of Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium.

This is why it is important to base your faith on the true spiritual foundation of the Church -- Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium -- and not on mere rules, not on reputation, not on majority opinion, not on perception, but on truth.
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