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  #11  
Old 1st April 2007, 09:29 PM
MarieM
 
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Yes, but there are mysteries which will never be comprehended fully by any human mind, not even by the human mind of Jesus or Mary.


Ron, can you explain this? I don't understand the part about the 'human' mind of Jesus. If He was divine, why didn't His human mind understand and meld with His divinity?

Thanks and God Bless,
M.
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  #12  
Old 1st April 2007, 09:38 PM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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Default Speculative Theology to Infallible Doctrine

I am looking forward to, like so many others in the faith as to when a pope will announce the Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate Dogma .
This is currently a petition asking the Pope to declare this as an infallible dogma, much like the last dogma pronounced in the church, that was from Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (1950), regarding the ‘Assumption of our Lady’.

Rgds

Paul
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  #13  
Old 1st April 2007, 09:53 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
Ron, can you explain this? I don't understand the part about the 'human' mind of Jesus. If He was divine, why didn't His human mind understand and meld with His divinity?

Thanks and God Bless,
M.

The human mind of Christ has limits,
simply because it is human and created.
So there is no possible way the human knowledge of Jesus
could fully understand and reach His Divine knowledge
since His Divine nature is infinite, eternal and so on.

Jesus Christ:
Who is He?
He is the Son of God,
and second Person of the Holy Trinity.
What is He?
God and man, two natures Divine and human,
mystically united in one Person.

A mystery ultimately beyond human understanding.


Nicholas

Last edited by Climacus Areopagite : 1st April 2007 at 10:11 PM.
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  #14  
Old 1st April 2007, 10:07 PM
CRW
 
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Ron,

Forgive me if this sounds totally brainless: Did Christ in prayer on earth in His human nature, enter into His divine nature with God and the Holy Spirit? Or from a different perspective, given that there is no past, present, or future for the Trinity, could Christ in His divinity see himself on earth in His human nature?

Cecil
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  #15  
Old 1st April 2007, 10:28 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
Ron, can you explain this? I don't understand the part about the 'human' mind of Jesus. If He was divine, why didn't His human mind understand and meld with His divinity?

Thanks and God Bless,
M.

If Christ's human mind were infinite (like the divine mind) instead of finite, then he would not be human. It is intrinsic to the human nature to have such limits. Christ's human nature was like ours in all things but sin. So His human nature was/is finite and has the same limits as ours.

The Church infallibly teaches that Christ has two wills: his human will and his divine will.

It follows from this teaching that Christ also has a human mind and a divine mind; the two are not melded together. The human nature of Christ is united to His divine nature in one person, but the two remain distinct and each retains its proper characteristics.

Ron
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  #16  
Old 1st April 2007, 10:34 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by CRW View Post
Ron,

Forgive me if this sounds totally brainless: Did Christ in prayer on earth in His human nature, enter into His divine nature with God and the Holy Spirit? Or from a different perspective, given that there is no past, present, or future for the Trinity, could Christ in His divinity see himself on earth in His human nature?

Cecil

There is always an sense in which the human nature of Christ is turned inward toward his divine nature, in worship. However, truly his human and divine natures are united in one person.

I don't really understand your questions.

Christ's human nature was informed by his divine nature, so that in prayer he could receive a level of understanding in his human mind far beyond what his human nature was capable of on its own. But his human mind did not have all knowledge all at once, as his divine mind does.

To some extent, your questions are treating Christ's human and divine natures as if they were separate, whereas they are closely united.


Ron
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  #17  
Old 2nd April 2007, 01:04 AM
CRW
 
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I guess I am Philip in John 14, especially John 14, 10; “Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me.” This (to Philip) is the human nature of Christ talking to him; however, it appears as Christ speaking in his divine nature, united with the Father. The same holds true when he told His Blessed Mother, “did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house.” We can rationalize his human nature not knowing the time or day of the judgment, but at the same time He and the Father are one.

Cecil
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  #18  
Old 2nd April 2007, 01:30 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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It is a mystery beyond complete human comprehension.
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  #19  
Old 2nd April 2007, 07:51 AM
Justin Angel Justin Angel is offline
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Default The Influence of Dogma

We have instances in Church teachings where non-dogmatic beliefs can be treated as infallible
because of the presuppositions of established Church dogmas. The Church's opposition to abortion
sufficiently rests on the dogma of the Incarnation. As Catholics we believe that human life begins
in the womb at the point of conception, for it was at this point that God became man. All our
beliefs, whether fallible or infallible, celibacy or the Assumption, are explicitly or implicitly based on
Sacred Scriptures and so there is a tendency of infallible dogma and fallible doctrines to intertwine.
It is no coincidence that the Church holds fallible doctrines which essentially may never be reversed,
strictly male ordination for one, because of the strong scriptural support behind them.
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  #20  
Old 2nd April 2007, 09:21 AM
CRW
 
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Default Ordination Sacerdotalis

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.
From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.

I think John Paul II settled the debate concerning woman priest.

Cecil
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