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Old 26th May 2018, 03:36 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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Default Michael Voris, is Pope Francis “flat out wrong”?

First let me say that I don’t follow Michael Voris for the series of heresies that he has said as proven by Ron in the following link which contains a partial list of his grave errors:

However, while looking at some Catholic videos, I came across a banner of one his videos saying “FLAT. OUT. WRONG.” yes, besides the utter message, in capital letters, with a picture of Pope Francis imposed on it.

Now, what’s the background of the story here? – It’s been reported that a Chilean man with homosexual tendencies has said to a Spanish newspaper ‘El Pais’, that Pope Francis has told him: “…‘Juan Carlos, that you are gay does not matter. God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The Pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are,”.

Now, these are the words of this gentleman, we don’t know if in fact the Holy Pontiff have told him so. We don’t know the background of this story. And if in fact the Pope told him so, we don’t know in what context the Pope told the Chilean man so.

What is striking in this video that Michal Voris starts his video by flat out saying that the Pope “is wrong” in his [the Pope’s] personal opinion. What does this tell us? – This tells us that Mr. Voris thinks that the Pope has in fact said such alleged comment and uses this information in order to start condemning him. By the way he exposes his comments, he has already made a conclusion, a negative judgment. Otherwise, why does he flat out say that the Pope is wrong? If we are not sure whether Pope made such a comment, we cannot flat out condemn him – But ironically this about 9 minutes long video is filled with grave errors much more worse than of what we, in our human capacity, are able to find of what the Pope has allegedly said. In order to prove that, let’s examine what the Pope has allegedly said:

“…‘Juan Carlos, that you are gay does not matter. God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The Pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are,”.

Again, we don’t know in what context the Pope has said so, therefore, we cannot flat out condemn his remarks as the CCC # teaches us:

“2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:

- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them;279

- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:”

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280”

In light of this teaching we must not jump around and be quick in harsh judgment conclusions to any person and even worst if it is our Spiritual Father, the Vicar of Christ because of the position given by God to him.

Let’s examine the Pope’s alleged remarks in parts:

“Juan Carlos, that you are gay does not matter.”

In charity and in light of Magisterial and Pope teachings, including Pope Francis, this can well be interpreted that having homosexual tendencies doesn’t matter in order to attain salvation or sainthood, for a tendency is not a sin by itself, it becomes a sin when we choose to do an act of commission or omission knowing that it is immoral. Also, it doesn’t matter how many sins in his past this man may have had, God loves this person because God IS Love. If God ceases to Love He ceases to Exists, which is of course impossible! What this man needs to do is seek conversion regardless of his disordered tendencies and he is able to do it regardless of his distorted/unnatural tendencies.

“God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care.”

It is true that God does not do or create evil, that is impossible. However, the good of creation became subject to corruption because of sin. This is the result of concupiscence, tendency towards sin, children born with physical maladies etc. God does not want that, but permits that as a consequence of sin. In one sense God does not “make people homosexual”, but in another sense God created, indirectly as a consequence, the man with those unnatural tendencies and obviously God loves us all. The “I don’t care”, again in charity and in light of Pope teachings, can mean that the Pope doesn’t care how bad he is or how bad a person is, still, that person is loved by God and can be redeemed by Christ who died on the Cross for all. God predestine no one to Hell.

“The Pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are,”

If God loves us as we are (us as persons, of course), we have to love others as they are too in imitation of Christ, with their imperfections, etc. Catholics are not “homophobic”, we, as the saying says “love the sinner, not the sin”. We all have to be happy with who we are, to be “Poor in Spirit”, not to pretend to be someone else.

As we can see, even these alleged words (for we are not sure if the Holy Pontiff has in fact said so) of Pope Francis can very well be interpreted without malice, without pointing out to the worst case scenario, as the Catechism teaches us, so there could be few (if any) errors.

But ironically this Michael Voris’ video has many and grave errors that can be found.

The flat out conclusion that Pope Francis is wrong. The flat out conclusion that God does not make people gay without further depth to this conclusion. Of course, as explained above, God does not make evil. But his error is not to consider another sense of the statement as if things are black and white or are like a switch, on and off. God does, indirectly, creates the body of the person from the parents (God creates our souls directly). Also, of course there are cases where some persons can become homosexuals by influence, physiological factors, etc. But the Church, nor Science has arrived at a conclusion whether some persons are in fact born with homosexual tendencies. So the question is open in this regards. My opinion is that if there are persons born with disordered tendencies it is because of the result of Original Sin and sin in general which cause this world to be corrupted, such as the cases of babies born with maladies, physical or mental, etc.

John 3:27; John 15:5; Matthew 19:26
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Old 26th May 2018, 03:37 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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His error to presume that the Pope is wrong and against Church teaching on homosexuality based on the alleged comments of a man and without a proof that he Pope has in fact said so. This goes against Magisterial teaching (CCC# 2477, 2478 ). If we are not sure of something we cannot arrive to negative conclusions against the person; otherwise, it is the sin of rash judgment or even worst calumny. If a man is not sure whether there is a baby boy or a plastic toy in a box and the man throws the box into the sea and it happens that it was a baby boy and the baby dies, that man is guilty of murder! If he was not sure, he must not have thrown the box into the sea! Here in this video Michael Voris is not sure whether the Pope have said such comments and yet arrives at the negative conclusion that he has said so and starts rash judging him (to say the least).

Here comes a graver error, he claims that since this alleged message are the Pope’s personal opinions, “he is no longer called Pope Francis, but, the man, Bergolio”, implying that the Papacy in general is intermittent, when the Pope says a personal opinion, is the man, but when he teaches within the Magisterium, he becomes the Pope again. This is the magisterium of Michael Voris. So according to this message, Pope Benedict XVI did not write his books on Jesus of Nazareth, but “Ratzinger” even though he wrote and concluded those books during his Papacy. And the same can be said with any other Pope. This statement is utterly false. This is only an excuse so that he can have all his bickering towards “Bergolio” instead of the person of the Vicar of Christ, and thus belittle and disrespect the Pope.

Notice all these errors in about 1:30 minutes of his video so far which surpass way more than what the Pope Francis could have said when interpreted in charity as our Mother Church teaches us.

His error in judging that the Pope has to come out and deny or affirm what he said concerning this. Do we really thing that the office of the Pope is of he being sited on a sofa twiddling his thumbs??? NO, he has many issues and problems that comes to him from around the world, besides, preparing homilies, trips, etc. We don’t know the reasons why the Pope has not confirmed or denied these allegations but, in any case, we cannot judge what the Pope must or must not do, that is between God and the Pope as Unam Sanctam teaches. Michael Voris’ judgment here is contrary to the Magisterial teaching of Unam Sanctam that no man can judge the Supreme Pontiff.

“6. Therefore, it is not in accord with the order of the universe that all things should be absolutely equal, but rather the lowest through the intermediate, and the lower through the higher, in order.”

“7. Therefore, if the earthly power goes astray, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a lesser spiritual power goes astray, [it will be judged] by its superior; and truly, if the highest [power] goes astray, it will not be able to be judged by man, but by God alone.” – Unam Sanctam – Pope Pope Boniface VIII

The highest power in the position established by God is the Pope, not us.

He concludes implying that the Pope is teaching that “God likes homosexual acts”. The Pope has NOT said that.

What comes worst is that about the end of his video he implies a “dare” to the Father and Teacher of all Christians, yes, that is one of the Pope’s titles, he says: “I would like the man who is currently Pope, to look to me in the eye and tell me God made me the way I used to live…” Implying that the Pope is teaching that “God likes sinful lifestyles” and then he goes on to say to his own hypothetical, yes you read it well, to his very own hypothetical, so after creating this straw man against the Pope (for the Pope has NOT said such things), he goes on to say: “you can imagine my answer back would be….my answer to the very fallible man….”. Where is the sense of respect towards a superior in role of all of us??? Pride goes before the fall.

He also says that he [Pope Francis] is [in office] “for now” implying that our current Pope only has a limited time, but does he think that the next Pope is going to be against Pope Francis and according to Michael Voris’ limited understanding of Catholicism? – Hasn’t he read that Jesus told the Apostles that He wil be with them ALWAYS until the end of the world? (Matt 28:20), and that whoever listens to those sent by Jesus Himself [and by given authority, to their successors in unity as a Body (CCC# 882, 883)] listens to Him, whoever rejects them rejects Jesus; and that whoever rejects Jesus rejects Him who sent Jesus (that is the Father)." ? (Matt 10:40) (Luke 10:16) (John 13:20).

Finally, yes, we can disagree with some of Holy Father’s personal opinions, but to a limited extent because he, not us, has the gift of Truth and Never-Failing Faith (First Vatican Council), and always with respect for he, not us, is the Rock (representative of Christ on earth), he, not us, has been given the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, he, not us, has received in a especial way the power from God to bind and loose, he, not us exercises the Magisterium, and thus always being subject to his authority.
John 3:27; John 15:5; Matthew 19:26
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