CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Catholic Continuing Education > ProLife and Natural Family Planning
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th June 2012, 05:34 AM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: India
Posts: 319
Default Ethics of aborting a foetus with confirmed genetic disorders

Ron, I came across this report and wondered about the Catholic viewpoint about this. Okay, aborting a foetus with Down's Syndrome is wrong, but once far more critically serious disorders are predetermined in the genes of a foetus, should the pregnancy still be mandatorily completed from an ethical point of view?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ic-faults.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 7th June 2012, 07:49 AM
jbbt9 jbbt9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 565
Default Murder is murder. God gives life and takes it back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feyfifer View Post
Ron, I came across this report and wondered about the Catholic viewpoint about this. Okay, aborting a foetus with Down's Syndrome is wrong, but once far more critically serious disorders are predetermined in the genes of a foetus, should the pregnancy still be mandatorily completed from an ethical point of view?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ic-faults.html

What part of murder do we not understand. The commandment did not say not to kill if someone has less than 5 defects or 35 defects or 3500 defects.
When you accept that life is a gift given by the Father and protected by His Commandment, then who would dare interfere with God's plan. Would any of us want to stand before God and try to justify wrecking His plan for life and the world. When we stop life taking it's first breaths and seeing it's first daylight, we are usurping God's role. We are being Gods.

This video (link originally supplied by ExCelcius) says more than words will ever do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTV7yBxYrU

Last edited by jbbt9 : 7th June 2012 at 07:59 AM. Reason: adding link
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 7th June 2012, 11:54 AM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feyfifer View Post
Ron, I came across this report and wondered about the Catholic viewpoint about this. Okay, aborting a foetus with Down's Syndrome is wrong, but once far more critically serious disorders are predetermined in the genes of a foetus, should the pregnancy still be mandatorily completed from an ethical point of view?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ic-faults.html

Terminating a pregnancy is a deliberate act inherently ordered toward the end of killing an innocent human being, and so the act is intrinsically evil; it can never be justified, even in the circumstance that the child would have a severe disorder.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 7th June 2012, 04:19 PM
garabandalg garabandalg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,686
Default Agree with Ron's analysis!

Once we accept thresholds upon which life becomes expendable, we create a slippery slope toward eventually determining that any life is expendable. Who are we to decide what percentage or number of defects is too much to make life worth living? I suspect that much of this talk is really selfishness in that X does not want to care for a child with defects so, "out of concern and compassion" X ends the child's life "lest it suffers too much." So much drivel wrapped in fertilizer!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 8th June 2012, 11:38 AM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: India
Posts: 319
Default

This part jaybee,.....13% of schizophrenic patients commmit suicide(suicide being murder too!) mostly for fear of their disease degenerating whatever little sanity they enjoy, as they age!
My point is that this is a new development and I was referring to even more deadly diseases like Duchenne muscular dystrophy.....parents watch their children slowly die over a period of 5 to 6 years. There is no cure for the disease.
You speak of the first breaths and first daylight,....how about the extended days and sleepless nights of parents tormented with their child's pnuemonia and blindness....a neighbour of mine still goes to her sons grave, 3years after he passed,..died of muscle atrophy at 14....weeps and talks to him as if he were alive!
NO jaybee.....I do not understand how sometimes compassion becomes murder.
I'm not arguing against church dogma,...and i would never condone callous abortions,..I'm just asking is everything so distinctly black and white, that
we remain passive observers when information and technology may assist us prevent such prolonged suffering and misery in children?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 8th June 2012, 11:48 AM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: India
Posts: 319
Default

Ron,
While I maintain the highest regard and respect for church dogma, may i ask:
Is it enough "not to kill" an INNOCENT human being, when you know for certain that the child will suffer prolonged, excruciating pain with no hope of recovery from a debilitating disease?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 8th June 2012, 11:51 AM
feyfifer feyfifer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: India
Posts: 319
Default

http://schizophreniadiaries.com/

I forgot to add this link !
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 8th June 2012, 12:44 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feyfifer View Post
Ron,
While I maintain the highest regard and respect for church dogma, may i ask:
Is it enough "not to kill" an INNOCENT human being, when you know for certain that the child will suffer prolonged, excruciating pain with no hope of recovery from a debilitating disease?

dogmas require belief, not merely regard and respect. We should have compassion and provide whatever moral assistance we can to those who are suffering. But abortion and euthanasia are always gravely immoral.

Pope John Paul II: "Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his Successors, in communion with the Bishops-who on various occasions have condemned abortion and who in the aforementioned consultation, albeit dispersed throughout the world, have shown unanimous agreement concerning this doctrine -- I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written Word of God, is transmitted by the Church's Tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church." (Evangelium Vitae 62)
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 8th June 2012, 01:56 PM
Brother Brother is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,840
Default

We should act with the heart and mind of Christ, not the world's.

Would Jesus Christ have killed a paralitic? or the blind or the lame?

Quote:
We should have compassion and provide whatever moral assistance we can to those who are suffering.

Christ is the light, away of Him is darkness.

And the devil who tries to obscure things to us with the guise of apparent "goodness" or "compassion".

{16:21} From that time, Jesus began to reveal to his disciples that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and to suffer much from the elders and the scribes and the leaders of the priests, and to be killed, and to rise again on the third day.
{16:22} And Peter, taking him aside, began to rebuke him, saying, “Lord, may it be far from you; this shall not happen to you.”
{16:23} And turning away, Jesus said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan; you are an obstacle to me. For you are not behaving according to what is of God, but according to what is of men.”
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 8th June 2012, 03:11 PM
jbbt9 jbbt9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 565
Default Slippery slope

[quote=feyfifer;40315]This part jaybee,.....13% of schizophrenic patients commmit suicide(suicide being murder too!) mostly for fear of their disease degenerating whatever little sanity they enjoy, as they age!



NO jaybee.....I do not understand how sometimes compassion becomes murder.
QUOTE]



Hi Feyfifer

It becomes such a dangerous slippery slope when we rewrite God's law.

Consider this: if 13% of patients commit suicide, you cannot prevent their deaths by aborting 13% of pregnancies which may test positive for schizophenia - you would not know which 13% would have gone on to take their own lives.

You would have to abort all 100% of such positive pregnancies to be certain those 13% of suicides are prevented. So, we end up killing 100 babies to prevent 13 possible suicides.

God says we cannot kill any single one of them.

If we sometimes struggle to understand or accept parts of God's law we must ask The Holy Spirit for enlightenment. The Spirit will give us that Light as long as we ask in a spirit of true openness to God's Will. We are not likely to receive that Light however, if we are asking with closed minds.

As I moved forward in my faith journey, my views have been radically reshaped. I used to be in darkness regarding almost everything.

The Spirit is not in the business of keeping us in darkness if we are truly seeking the Light.

Trust in the Holy Spirit Feyfifer. I will pray for us all.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.