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  #1  
Old 20th July 2010, 08:39 PM
BIDUMATTW BIDUMATTW is offline
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Default Homosexuals in a California seminary

http://www.newsweek.com/2002/05/19/g...ar+Religion%29

This is a monumental scandal if this is true.
The local bishop surly would not approve.
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Old 20th July 2010, 09:46 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Here is the document of the Holy See on the subject:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...uzione_en.html

"In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture"."

"Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies."

It is often claimed that if a man is gay but celibate, he should be admitted.
I disagree with that claim, for several reasons:

1. There is no way to determine if a homosexual candidate for the priesthood is in fact celibate. I suspect that some commentators who favor admitting 'celibate' homosexuals to the seminary are hoping that they are not celibate (because these commentators dislike the Church's teaching on sexuality).

2. If numerous homsexual seminarians are admitted, living in close quarters with one another, some may fall into grave sin.

3. The faithful will be scandalized, so that it will seem to them that homosexuality is not disordered, if homosexuals are admitted to the priesthood. If enough gay men become priests, especially if it becomes evident that they are gay, it may scandalize the faithful to the extent that they might conclude that homosexual acts are not grave sins.

4. A person with a homosexual orientation is more likely to dissent from the teaching of the Church on sexual ethics, more likely to see homosexuality as not a disorder, and more likely to support various positions that are contrary to Catholic teaching on sexual ethics. Moreover, I think that some proponents of 'celibate' gay clergy are hoping that having gay priests will result in the Church changing Her teaching on various sexual issues, not only same-sex marriage, but also pre-marital sex, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc.

5. Heterosexual candidates for the priesthood are sometimes driven away by the presence of homosexual seminarians, especially when a gay culture develops in a seminary.

6. When the number of homosexual seminarians increases, heterosexual candidates are sometimes rejected from the seminary (on various excuses) if they believe that homosexual acts are grave sins and homosexuality is gravely disordered. A certain culture of tolerance and approval for homosexuality develops, even among those who run the seminary.

7. Priests should be like lambs without blemish, offered by the faithful to God for service in His Church. Just as the Israelites offered only the purest lambs for sacrifice to God, so also should be offer only the purest men for the sacrifice of the priesthood. Persons who have a substantial attachment to, or tendency toward, any grave sin, especially sexual sin, should not be admitted.


I recommend the book: Goodbye, Good Men by Michael Rose

It is about problems in the seminaries. I believe that the root cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the Church is found in who is admitted to the seminary, and who is not admitted.
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Old 21st July 2010, 12:27 PM
Shane Shane is offline
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I am reading that book at the moment. It is shocking and appalling to learn what conditions have been like in certain seminaries, and of the many ways in which people in positions of authority, working under the good name of Christ, have repeatedly sought to undermine and even openly oppose Church teaching.

I found it amusing at one point when one interviewee declared that if the Pope himself was at the seminary in question, he would also have been rejected for being 'rigid' in his adherence to Church teaching!
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Old 22nd July 2010, 09:45 PM
Climacus Areopagite Climacus Areopagite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
7. Priests should be like lambs without blemish, offered by the faithful to God for service in His Church. Just as the Israelites offered only the purest lambs for sacrifice to God, so also should be offer only the purest men for the sacrifice of the priesthood. Persons who have a substantial attachment to, or tendency toward, any grave sin, especially sexual sin, should not be admitted.


I recommend the book: Goodbye, Good Men by Michael Rose

It is about problems in the seminaries. I believe that the root cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the Church is found in who is admitted to the seminary, and who is not admitted.
Good list. I dont need to read the book. I've discovered these problems on my own and it makes me angry and sick. What would the Apostles think of this? How terrible is it that we have to even address this issue so often in the discussions about the Church today? What a shame.

{100:6} My eyes looked toward the faithful of the earth, to sit with me. The one walking in the immaculate way, this one ministered to me.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 12:30 AM
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Sacredcello Sacredcello is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post

I recommend the book: Goodbye, Good Men by Michael Rose

It is about problems in the seminaries. I believe that the root cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the Church is found in who is admitted to the seminary, and who is not admitted.

I have ordered the book through inter-library loan. Thanks!
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Old 23rd July 2010, 08:19 AM
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Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, spoke out in an article on the Washington Post's website on Thursday, defending his assertion that the widespread perception of a “pedophilia crisis in the Catholic Church” is not supported by data and research. The more significant problem, Donohue argued, is the incidence of homosexuality among priests.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...gue-president/

Mr. Donohue raises some questions about the crisis in the Church. I don't think it is so simple as he makes it sound. It is not a question of either pedophile or homosexual. There are probably many cases that are neither.

What about the fact that 1 in 4 women are estimated to have been sexually abused by someone in her own home? Isn't this a much bigger crisis than what we are seeing unfold in the public eye regarding the "problem in the Church"? We don't hear about the domestic problem because children don't want to accuse their family members. And who are these abusers? For the most part, they are married men who are contracepting with their wives. Are they pedophiles? Homosexuals? No. Just people who have rejected God's call to holiness in their marriages and have gone too far.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 12:26 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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I think the root of the problems that we see in the priesthood is that a large percentage of persons who call themselves Catholic are non-practicing, seldom pray, and don't believe (or even know) what the Church teaches. They are living very secular lives, guided by the example and teaching (if it could even be called by those terms) of sinful secular society.

Priests come from among the faithful. Any problem found among the faithful will be found among the priests. And when the faithful live according to the example and teaching of secular society, any problem found in secular society will be found among the faithful. So the problems of homosexuality, child abuse, various other sexual sins, found among priests and religious (and even some Bishops), begins in sexual society, enters the Church because the faithful are not believing and practicing the Faith, and enters the priesthood and religious life because those in charge of choosing candidates and of overseeing members did not act with sufficient prayer and cooperation with grace.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 02:44 PM
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yes, it is rampent in our society, both in creating the condition and in promoting / accepting the condition. Just this morning, in my breakfast group that meets after mass, the conversation of Gay people in our area becoming more boisterous was discussed. It soon beacame obvious, the majority of the group felt it was ok to be gay. My 4 children ranging from 18 to 30, all believe it to be ok. If society doesnt take a stand against this sin, then it will become even more prevalent. One of our group, indicated that it is no worse a sin than Adultry, of which I somewhat agreed. Unfortunately, our society has been way too ok w/ adultry also. I suppose we are still in the "if it feels good do it" mode, and we get what we deserve.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
yes, it is rampent in our society, both in creating the condition and in promoting / accepting the condition. Just this morning, in my breakfast group that meets after mass, the conversation of Gay people in our area becoming more boisterous was discussed. It soon beacame obvious, the majority of the group felt it was ok to be gay. My 4 children ranging from 18 to 30, all believe it to be ok. If society doesnt take a stand against this sin, then it will become even more prevalent. One of our group, indicated that it is no worse a sin than Adultry, of which I somewhat agreed. Unfortunately, our society has been way too ok w/ adultry also. I suppose we are still in the "if it feels good do it" mode, and we get what we deserve.

Ron, a homosexual relationship is the greater sin because it can be neither unitive nor marital nor procreative but the adulterous hetersexual relationship may be open to life and genital to genital (unitive). Both would be considered grave mortal sins but the homosexual union is the greater sin?
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Old 23rd July 2010, 03:20 PM
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A priest must be clean at all time, an exemplary representative of Jesus Christ.

[Leviticus 21]
{21:17} Say to Aaron: A man from your offspring, throughout their families, who has a blemish, shall not offer the bread to his God.
{21:18} Neither shall he approach to minister to him: if he is blind, if he is lame, if he is small, or large, or has a crooked nose,
{21:19} if his foot or hand is broken,
{21:20} if he has a bulging back or bleary eyes, or if he has a white spot in his eye, or a chronic scab, or a skin disease on his body, or a hernia.
{21:21}Anyone from the offspring of Aaron, the priest, who has a blemish, shall not approach to offer sacrifices to the Lord, nor the bread to his God.

Last edited by Brother : 23rd July 2010 at 03:33 PM.
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