CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group  

Go Back   CatholicPlanet.Net discussion group > Catholic Continuing Education > Catholic Theology Q & A
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24th August 2010, 04:11 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 382
Default TULIP

Ron,

those who feign catholiscism uses the writing of this one, esp on predestination.

James Akin: TULIP

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TULIP.htm

James Akin, one of the most prominent Catholic apologists of our day, was a conservative Presbyterian (or in other words, a Calvinist), now at home again within the Holy Roman Catholic Church defending its faith.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24th August 2010, 06:39 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 382
Default my question

Is the the Doctrine of Unconditional Election is an accepted Roman Catholic belief?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th August 2010, 02:02 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,570
Default

I'm writing an article explaining the serious doctrinal errors in Akin's article. It should be completed sometime today.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th August 2010, 02:17 PM
zouxi zouxi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
I'm writing an article explaining the serious doctrinal errors in Akin's article. It should be completed sometime today.

Ron, his article is puzzling. The following part made me wonder if he's right or not:

This is not to say there is no sense in which limitation may be ascribed to the atonement. While the grace it provided is sufficient to pay for the sins of all men, this grace is not made efficacious (put into effect) in the case of everyone. One may say that although the sufficiency of the atonement is not limited, its efficiency is limited. This is something everyone who believes in hell must acknowledge because, if the atonement was made efficacious for everyone, then no one would end up in hell.

Looking forward to reading your reply Ron, a reply from a decent and faithful catholic theologian.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th August 2010, 04:03 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zouxi View Post
Ron, his article is puzzling. The following part made me wonder if he's right or not:

This is not to say there is no sense in which limitation may be ascribed to the atonement. While the grace it provided is sufficient to pay for the sins of all men, this grace is not made efficacious (put into effect) in the case of everyone. One may say that although the sufficiency of the atonement is not limited, its efficiency is limited. This is something everyone who believes in hell must acknowledge because, if the atonement was made efficacious for everyone, then no one would end up in hell.

Looking forward to reading your reply Ron, a reply from a decent and faithful catholic theologian.

That quoted paragraph is substantially incorrect on grace and salvation.

My book, The Catechism of Catholic Ethics, has a long section on soteriology (theology of salvation) in the last chapter: Grace and Salvation.

Akin's theology is generally quite good, but not on the topic of grace and salvation.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24th August 2010, 05:00 PM
Brother Brother is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,765
Default

What I understand of predestination is that God does not have favoritism toward anyone. He offers His graces and, thus, our salvation to all people without exceptions; it is up to us (our own free will) whether we accept Him or not. Since God eternal, He already knows who is going to accept His Graces and be saved and who don't.

[Sirarch]
{35:15} And do not be willing to consider an unjust sacrifice. For the Lord is the judge, and with him there is no favoritism toward anyone.
{35:16} The Lord will not accept favoritism against the poor, but He will heed the prayer of one who has been harmed.

{35:17} He will not despise the prayers of the orphan, nor of the widow, if she utters a lamenting complaint.

{35:20} Whoever adores God with joy will be accepted, and his prayer will reach even to the clouds.

{36:2} And send your fear upon the Gentiles, who have not sought you, so that they may acknowledge that there is no God except you, and so that they may declare your great deeds.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24th August 2010, 05:09 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother View Post
What I understand of predestination is that God does not have favoritism toward anyone. He offers His graces and, thus, our salvation to all people without exceptions; it is up to us (our own free will) whether we accept Him or not. Since God eternal, He already knows who is going to accept His Graces and be saved and who don't.

That is essentially correct.

But we are not the primary cause of our own salvation. God is 100% the primary cause of our salvation; we are each 100% the secondary cause of our salvation. God's grace is always first, and so salvation is not based solely or primarily on our cooperation, but on the first grace of God without which we could not cooperate to reach salvation.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th August 2010, 09:58 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,570
Default

I am still working on the article. It should be done by Saturday -- sorry for the delay.

Note that there are serious doctrinal errors in that article on grace and salvation.
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28th August 2010, 06:10 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,570
Default

I've now completed my article, commenting on Akin's article 'A Tiptoe through TULIP'

Catholic Soteriology versus Semi-Calvinism
http://www.catechism.cc/articles/cat...ogy-versus.htm
__________________
Ron Conte
Roman Catholic theologian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29th August 2010, 01:10 AM
myLivingBread myLivingBread is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 382
Default

thank you Ron.

I wish I could have a copy of your book in catholic ethics, my brother in law said he will order it at amazon.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.